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Post by revolvercranker on Jul 29, 2024 9:59:02 GMT -5
I'm not attacking Bob, I know him very well. I'm pointing out facts. If you search you'll find that their is forensic evidence that animals shot with the same firearm, same ammo, same distance, and same bullet placement and angle and the one drop dead instantly and the other runs off quite a distance. I'm not going to post their findings it's too lengthy.
A jacketed bullet that performs like Bob's hollowpoint designs is the Nosler Partition. I know many cast hunters and some won't even have a hollopoint cast bullet in their house and others love them. I've had 100% success with my 45-70 and cast on large whitetail deer with cast solids I'm not about to change to hollow points, I don't need them in that rifle. The same with my 32 Winchester Special. The 45-70 bullets were WW's air cooled and they expanded beautifully. The 32 Spcl was with Bob's 50/50 alloy. Never recovered a bullet with that caliber, but the damage to the deer was immense.
One never knows how the animal is going to react. I've seen deer mangled pretty good go quite an unbelievable distance that one would never imagine with a body that broken up. I have many bullets designe by Bob that shoot really good and others that are just so so. I've also gotten some bad molds from Mihec that the bullet wasn't machined right. He graciously replaced as he's a really great man. Don't get me wrong, I hold his molds and machining work highest in the world and on the list. I often call him the NASA Machinest. His molds are works of art and they are very very reasonabley priced.
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Post by sixshot on Jul 29, 2024 12:45:22 GMT -5
Actually I think we've all been pretty civil here & I'm not surprised by that, Single Actions Forum is that way. It's just the way different gunners experience things because of how they hunt. And animals react different because of adrenaline. I was a little surprised when I shot my Cape Buffalo with heavy loads in my bisley 45, I sort of expected a little bit of a boxing match because the herd was milling around & nervous & trying to decide what to do. I was using a 325 gr water quenched cast bullet at a little over 1300 fps, the shot knocked it down but it got back up, now the adrenaline was working for both of us.
That's why no two shots are ever the same even when the shot is the same. An undisturbed animal reacts different than one that is on full alert. Then a different bullet design might make a different. We've all seen video's of Buffalo or other game taking multiple hits & staying up, it just happens, whether it was shot with a premium bullet from a 243 or a premium bullet from a 338 or 475 Linebaugh, it's called hunting & anything can make a difference & often does.
For a few years, before powder coating came along I shot quite a few two part bullets, known as softnose cast. I poured a hard lower part & then quickly poured a softer, pure lead nose on top that would weld itself to the lower bullet, basically making a Nosler Partition. The top half would expand & shear off, the lower half would continue to penetrate, worked great & a pain in the Pelosi to make but you only needed a few. Used one on my bull moose from my Ruger 480.
Dick
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Post by bigbore5 on Jul 29, 2024 19:26:30 GMT -5
I have a set of LBT softnose molds. One casts the nose only. You'd cast up some of them from soft alloy. Then pop them into the full mold and add your hard alloy. They would weld together in the mold. And yes your fingers would get pretty hot.
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Post by kevshell on Jul 30, 2024 8:17:51 GMT -5
Here's another one to throw in the mix beyond the bullet shape. Speed. Evidently at one of those big bore shoots where they did the penetration testing there were some observation that some of the slower moving bullets out penetrated the ones going fast. Evidently there was a lot of head scratching but the only conclusion a few came up with is that it's like hitting water really hard versus at a slower speed. Water can almost act like a solid. And if you think about it mammals are made up of a great deal of water. So it's possible that the ojive might have something to do with it along with the meplat based on how hydrodynamics work.
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Post by 45MAN on Jul 30, 2024 10:34:05 GMT -5
Here's another one to throw in the mix beyond the bullet shape. Speed. Evidently at one of those big bore shoots where they did the penetration testing there were some observation that some of the slower moving bullets out penetrated the ones going fast. Evidently there was a lot of head scratching but the only conclusion a few came up with is that it's like hitting water really hard versus at a slower speed. Water can almost act like a solid. And if you think about it mammals are made up of a great deal of water. So it's possible that the ojive might have something to do with it along with the meplat based on how hydrodynamics work. SAME BULLET, SAME GUN, SAME DISTANCE, SAME TIME, SAME TEST MEDIUM? AND TO PARAPHRASE SOME PRIOR COMMENTS: I HAVE CONFIDENCE IN THE COMMERCIALLY CAST 250gR RNFP AND PLAN TO KEEP USING IT, I USE IT IN MY 45 COLT "S&W LOAD" AND IN MY RUGER "OUTDOORSMAN LOAD". |
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Post by revolvercranker on Jul 30, 2024 12:19:48 GMT -5
Well, quite a change of events have happened in this thread since some of you think that I tramped on boolitdesigner's toes. Now we have a more true picture of what most of us here are realling using in handgun cast bullets. Here's something that wasn't brought up. Bob's hollow point bullets are not for shoulder joint shots, they will fail miserably. This is where those heavy solids that many of you use excel. Here's something from the law enforcement view of hollow points. They have a concern about whether the hollow cavity fills up with clothing material and other barriers they have to shoot through such as sheetrock. These things completely changes the hollowpoints performance. Yes animals don't wear clothing or hide behind sheetrock. Many of them do have thick fur. Studying Bob's hollowpoints I've come to the conclusion they are mainly for whitetail deer type animals and then going down the list to smaller critters, and varmints. Bob's mainly a whitetail deer hunter. His hollow points may not be a good choice for larger game such as Moose, Elk, and the big bears. I have a few number of his hollow point designs. One particular stands out in appearance. It's the one he designed for the 41 mag. I call it the "flying ashtray" as it has a honking big hollow point mouth. I mainly bought it to try different bullets in 41 mag Blackhawk.
I'm glad I made some of you thing and you brought up what you have been using and I was quite surprised by some them .
This reminds me of long ago I had a friend that hunted whitetail deer with a 357 Mag Blackhawk. One day as work he asked if I or my best friend could load something for him that would drop a deer a lot faster. Well my friend at that time had some Sierra Hollow cavity hollow points, remember thoses? We got some loaded up and the friend at work shot a doe during doe season. At work he couldn't wait to talk to me. He asked what the hell are those damn bullets, it's like they exploded. I told him. They put an impressive hole in the doe. Be a while, but I don't Sierra makes those anymore. The only ones I ever had were the 115 grain 9mm. Shot a groundhog with one using a 38/45 loaded slightly hot and it damn near blew it in two pieces.
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edk
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,162
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Post by edk on Jul 30, 2024 12:41:19 GMT -5
I have a few number of his hollow point designs. One particular stands out in appearance. It's the one he designed for the 41 mag. I call it the "flying ashtray" as it has a honking big hollow point mouth. I mainly bought it to try different bullets in 41 mag Blackhawk. That sounds like the HP mold nicknamed the "Hammer". He started at 0.460" and scaled it down to 0.359" hitting most every stop on the way. I like it. And if you don't want a hollow point it can be around a honkin' 88% meplat flat nose. |
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Post by revolvercranker on Jul 30, 2024 13:27:50 GMT -5
I have a few number of his hollow point designs. One particular stands out in appearance. It's the one he designed for the 41 mag. I call it the "flying ashtray" as it has a honking big hollow point mouth. I mainly bought it to try different bullets in 41 mag Blackhawk. That sounds like the HP mold nicknamed the "Hammer". He started at 0.460" and scaled it down to 0.359" hitting most every stop on the way. I like it. And if you don't want a hollow point it can be around a honkin' 88% meplat flat nose. Yes I'm very aware of all the pins that come with the mould to change it's configuration. Thank you |
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Post by bigbore5 on Jul 30, 2024 17:00:07 GMT -5
Seems revolvercranker is also missing that even though he does advocate for the use of his design hollow points, bulletdesigner doesn't suggest that just one cartridge is the do it all with his basic design. There's a reason his designs range from .314 to .512. He has stated that bigger game gets bigger bullets. I like and use some of his bullets. The 359-640 cup point or small hp is a deer slayer in the 357 mag and max, punching through both shoulders, yet still effective against the double lung broadside. Switch to the large hp, and varmint beware, both two and four legs. It's solid is a real pork popper. The 452640 has proven itself from deer to Cape Buffalo. His 475 640 design in the light version is a dandy hog and black bear round, but the heavy version has cleanly taken many buffalo and bison, big bears, and African dangerous game. The 512-525 I use for the biggest and meanest can also be cast from the same mold with a hollow point big enough to fit a 357 bullet into. It impact on game is stunning and it's penetration is up there still with the best of rifles. So I really don't get what your issues are. Yes, I do use and sometimes prefer other designs, but it's not because his don't work. |
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Post by boolitdesigner on Jul 30, 2024 17:29:44 GMT -5
Seems revolvercranker is also missing that even though he does advocate for the use of his design hollow points, bulletdesigner doesn't suggest that just one cartridge is the do it all with his basic design. There's a reason his designs range from .314 to .512. He has stated that bigger game gets bigger popper. . There are other hp designs for little cartridges and all sorts of rifles, from very small to very large you guys seldom see or hear about. Nobody here hunts with me. All some hear is a synopsis of what I used. I do hunt deer and some bigger things. I know people in Europe who hunt big game with cast rifle bullets that qualify as Elk. Many people here hunt in Africa with them. I check most of these designs by driving them with rifles to velocities far past what you think they would work. It’s fun and I enjoy knowing what they can be made to do. |
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Post by revolvercranker on Jul 30, 2024 18:17:01 GMT -5
Seems revolvercranker is also missing that even though he does advocate for the use of his design hollow points, bulletdesigner doesn't suggest that just one cartridge is the do it all with his basic design. There's a reason his designs range from .314 to .512. He has stated that bigger game gets bigger popper. . There are other hp designs for little cartridges and all sorts of rifles, from very small to very large you guys seldom see or hear about. Nobody here hunts with me. All some hear is a synopsis of what I used. I do hunt deer and some bigger things. I know people in Europe who hunt big game with cast rifle bullets that qualify as Elk. Many people here hunt in Africa with them. I check most of these designs by driving them with rifles to velocities far past what you think they would work. It’s fun and I enjoy knowing what they can be made to do. I've never in almost the 20 years I've known you to put up pic of a paper target. For those 20 years all I heard from you about accuracy was how they grouped on clumps of dirt and leaves at the edge of the woods. For once in your life post some targets and also penetration/expansion result THAT AREN'T SHOT IN DIRT!!! How about some ballistic gelatin or at the minimum wet newspaper. Show the bullets too. I believe with your unfortunate tree accident that your testing shooting days are about over. I'm anxious see what your new/used Rossi Carbine does in all the areas of the afore mentioned here. Far as cast bullets for big African game, well, that's all they had before the advent of jacketed bullets. Yes they took all kind of game, they didn't have a choice but to use them. |
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Post by sixshot on Jul 30, 2024 18:27:03 GMT -5
I guess I forgot to tell my Kudu that 282 gr HP wouldn't give me a complete pass through on both shoulders, almost went clear through on my Zebra & they are thick! And it went clear through my Nyala. I've sent lots of big 475 HP's to guys all over the country that have whistled them through big bears, moose & African game & some of those bullets are still going, just heard one go over my roof. I watched my dentist punch one through a very large bull moose as we sat on a water hole a few years back & saw the dust kick up on the far side. Use the right HP on the right animal & of course they will work. His was a double lung shot & a 30-40 yd run.
Even if you shear the nose off you have about 300 grs of lead poison passing on through. And these were with the big pins. I ran a penta HP 44 almost length ways through a muley buck a few years ago & that was after breaking a front shoulder as it walked towards me. I was shocked it could do it & only 10 grs of Unique.
Dick
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Post by revolvercranker on Jul 30, 2024 18:34:46 GMT -5
Seems revolvercranker is also missing that even though he does advocate for the use of his design hollow points, bulletdesigner doesn't suggest that just one cartridge is the do it all with his basic design. There's a reason his designs range from .314 to .512. He has stated that bigger game gets bigger bullets. I like and use some of his bullets. The 359-640 cup point or small hp is a deer slayer in the 357 mag and max, punching through both shoulders, yet still effective against the double lung broadside. Switch to the large hp, and varmint beware, both two and four legs. It's solid is a real pork popper. The 452640 has proven itself from deer to Cape Buffalo. His 475 640 design in the light version is a dandy hog and black bear round, but the heavy version has cleanly taken many buffalo and bison, big bears, and African dangerous game. The 512-525 I use for the biggest and meanest can also be cast from the same mold with a hollow point big enough to fit a 357 bullet into. It impact on game is stunning and it's penetration is up there still with the best of rifles. So I really don't get what your issues are. Yes, I do use and sometimes prefer other designs, but it's not because his don't work. The issues may be that Bob says that his bullets do this and do that with no proof, no targets, no velocities, no penetration tests other then shooting into dirt and what he says. You all here that buy the molds of his designs are the test vehicles, the ones that post all the information along with pics and also pic of the wounds on the game you've taken. Can you name one time Bob has done that? I've tested many of Bob's designs and reported back to him.The heavy version has cleanly taken many buffalo and bison, big bears, and African dangerous game. Well I'd love to see the report and by who done those feats and pics would be really nice. Let's see if he posts any pics or information along with names. Most his designs shoot pretty good accuracy wise. The other people designed bullets don't put the effort into designing them. The just design what they think looks good or think might work. I know how Bob starts to design his bullets. One method is he ask all of us for a "pound cast" or throat/leade/rifling cast from various rifles from new, to worn some, to really worn a lot. Then when he has enough he puts them on his AutoCad and figures out what the bullet need to have for dimensions. I've supplied him many and many pound casts from the calibers and rifles that I have that he wanted to know. I've been waiting almost 20 years for a good 7mm bullet. But when you report back that you got one of his designs that doesn't shoot he jumps all over you and the number one thing he'll tell you is that you don't know what you're doing, you're not loading it right. I have one particular bullet right now which is a 35 caliber 217 grain hollow point basically designed for the 35 Rem. Out of my custom 1903 Springfield 35 Whelen it's a target bullet. It shoots pretty good from my 350 Legend, but is a tad too heavy for it. It won't shoot at all our of my 358 Win AR10 and it won't shoot out of my 35 Krag that I've recently just build, but that's my fauth, yeah, right. |
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Post by bigbore5 on Jul 30, 2024 21:02:36 GMT -5
Who cares other than you if he tested it or not? They have been tested in the field time and again and worked perfectly.
Not everyone wants to pursue dangerous game. Many people are happy only hunting deer. One of my cousins only hunts groundhogs (he uses one of Bob's designs by the way). There's others I know that have very extensive trophy rooms, but I have never heard them mention a hunt to anyone outside the family, like my father.
I have disagreed with bulletdesigner on this forum before. We've had different experiences. Doesn't mean that his designs don't work. Sounds more like you have a personal disagreement with him.
Take for instance your above statement. Clearly you say the bullet was designed for the 35Rem, yet you are upset it doesn't work out for you in different cartridges. He appears to have told you that you weren't loading it how it was designed. Did you try loading it like he advised? Have you tried it in the cartridge it was designed for? You're obviously displeased, but you also say it provides target accuracy in one of your guns.
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edk
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,162
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Post by edk on Jul 30, 2024 22:22:11 GMT -5
That sounds like the HP mold nicknamed the "Hammer". He started at 0.460" and scaled it down to 0.359" hitting most every stop on the way. I like it. And if you don't want a hollow point it can be around a honkin' 88% meplat flat nose. Yes I'm very aware of all the pins that come with the mould to change it's configuration. Thank you Why the sarcasm? Seems you are on a mission to kill 45MAN's thread. |
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