Does one need a FA .45 AND a .454?!

[bigbore5]

Jul 6, 2023 14:47:05 GMT -5 mike454 said:

May 31, 2023 0:55:13 GMT -5 bigbore5 said:

My own design. Accurate 51-355H. A 355gr swc with a wide meplat.

Sounds like something I might be interested in. How's the accuracy?

Half inch one shot group at any range! Seriously though, I get around 2" groups with heavy loads of #9 at 50yds from all my guns, 1-1/2" from the Reeder Redhawk.

Switching to a lighter load with Universal at about 850-900 fps groups open to 3". It's still good enough for a deer load.

Note that I don't use a shooting bench. Field positions only or just off hand. My shooting range is where I decided to shoot at most of the time and unless I am really testing a load, my targets are either game, pests or I am making big rocks into little rocks. When I shoot a group, it's on a plain white 3×5 post card. Sometimes I might stick a little sticker on it for an aiming point. I'm only interested in hunting accuracy with the revolvers.

[davt]

I have owned and shot many FA 83's and 97's. You really do need both. I love the little 97 but the size of cylinder (length) limits what bullets you can use. The 83 is plenty big. For the really heavy bullets the 83 will serve you better.

[bigmuddy]

Well, I’m one of the few that voted “no”. One doesn’t need a 45 Colt if you have a 454. The 454 can be loaded to any level equal to the Colt, light or heavy. And yeah you can shoot 45’s in the 454 cylinder even though FA doesn’t warrant that. No doubt if I was restricted to one gun strictly for hunting it would be a 7 1/2” FA 454. If I really wanted a companion belt gun 45 Colt it would be (and is) a Ruger Blackhawk.

All of the comments about bullet length restrictions in the M97 45 Colt is the reason why I “needed” one in 44 Special. 😀

Dan

[gregs]

As stated numerous times, a 454 is pretty versital. A 45 Colt in s M83 is real close, potatoe potateo almost.

Personally, got a 4.75" M83 in 454 and 45 ACP. I'm content with this used purchase and don't feel the need for a Colt cylinder. Lately the ACP has been getting regular workouts with an MP Molds 200 HP weekly.

If that ain't enough, a 7.5" M83 in 475 will chip in.

The 4.75" is very portable.

[bigbore5]

I really don't get it. The 97 is not the 83 or vice versa. They each serve their own purpose and are as different as owning a 357 and a 44mag.

The 45 Colt is a grand old cartridge. The smaller 97 is capable of great performance with bullets up to 270gr with a convenient 4.5-5.5" barrel. A real packable pistol. It will handle most any adverse encounter in the US.

The M83 on the other hand isn't a daily carry while doing chores type of gun. It's more of the purely hunting gun now that formal steel banging matches are all but dead. The extra power and range is best in a 6-10" barrel. Probably with a scope.

Those two guns are definitely different animals and have two very different purposes.

I don't like the 454 Casull and never have. Would I buy one? Nope. The 475 is superior for how I would use it. But I do see how owning one of both would make perfect sense.

[gnappi]

I clicked No because I do not have a .454
but several .45 Colts.

[hunter01]

Jan 1, 2024 5:04:41 GMT -5 bigbore5 said:

I really don't get it. The 97 is not the 83 or vice versa. They each serve their own purpose and are as different as owning a 357 and a 44mag.

The 45 Colt is a grand old cartridge. The smaller 97 is capable of great performance with bullets up to 270gr with a convenient 4.5-5.5" barrel. A real packable pistol. It will handle most any adverse encounter in the US.

The M83 on the other hand isn't a daily carry while doing chores type of gun. It's more of the purely hunting gun now that formal steel banging matches are all but dead. The extra power and range is best in a 6-10" barrel. Probably with a scope.

Those two guns are definitely different animals and have two very different purposes.

I don't like the 454 Casull and never have. Would I buy one? Nope. The 475 is superior for how I would use it. But I do see how owning one of both would make perfect sense.

This statement mostly nailed it as far as I’m concerned. A BFR or 83, by their sheer size and weight, are relegated to strictly hunting weapons when I head out with a purpose. WAY too heavy and bulky to be comfortable daily chore guns. The 97, ruger flat top, or something built on an OM mid frame are perfect for the day to day lifting.
A guy with an 83 454 and a 97 45 colt could go the rest of his life and never NEED anything else. Doesn’t sound much fun though.

[davt]

I had a FA 97 in 45 Colt for years. Wonderful little gun. I just got tired of the limitation of bullet. For hunting I prefer a big bullet at moderate velocity and the 97 just would not accept many of the hard cast 300gr + bullets I wanted to use. Currently waiting for a FA 83 in 454/45C/45ACP. Now, an ideal situation would be to have an 83 and a 97.

[messybear]

Couple things I have observed with both-
If talking ruger loads and freedom loads, we have a difference of 25-30000 psi. So bullet integrity is an issue with the top end loads. I do believe what freedom says about not using soft bullets above a certain level. Copper at high heat and pressures can cut steel from what I have heard. So that’s why they like to see only the high antimony core jacketed used at high pressure levels. Also they used to say only linotype gas checked at top end as well. Not many use that alloy for brittleness reasons and availability.
Also I experienced bullet failures with cast. I helped a guy with a moose tag get his newly acquired 454 going to take on the hunt. He had nothing for ammo. I had a bunch of stuff. So the first problem we had was the gun came with a front sight too short. All my heavy weight ammo shot a foot and a half high or more at 100 yd. So we added as much powder as possible for higher velocity to bring poi down.
Load consisted of old ( Tony Turner) mt baldy 335 gr WFN gas checks with as much H110 as we could get in there. 32gr? IFIRC? Shot well and more to aim. He shoots a moose mostly in many places and had bullet failures. Mostly wore the thing out and got a vital hit somewhere. Guides didn’t let him dig much but he did bring home a mangled slug that consisted of about a quarter of the base up to crimp. Didn’t weigh over 60 gr.
Lesson learned- didn’t have any proper jacketed so should have just slowed the big ones down with a light charge of Unique or something for 1050 fps and likely would have shot to sights and wouldn’t have grenaded.
BUT if you want long range ability there isn’t much in revolver that will extend that with the 18-1900 fps ability. Makes hits at 150 or more a lot easier.

[wyomingnimrod]

To circle back to the original post; I now have both a model 97 .45 Colt as well as a model 83 in .454 Casull and I love them both. And the answer, for me, to my question of needing both is “yes, and I need more revolvers on top of those…”

[bigbore5]

At the 50,000psi level, I use 2/4/94 alloy, water-dropped,pc'd, water-dropped again, and gas checked. I like to size in my 450 over the push through anyway, so they also get LBT soft blue lubed too. It's hard at 20bhn, but not as brittle as wheel weights. Works beautiful in the 475 and heavy 357 Maximum. It does well at impact velocity of 1700+fps.

That's about as good a balance of bullet integrity, performance, and accuracy I have been able to find in the high pressure/velocity hunting handgun.

[45MAN]

MY 5 MODEL 83 454's ALL HAVE XTRA 45 COLT CYLINDERS, BUT ALL THE 45 COLT CYLINDERS ARE CHAMBERED LOOSE RATHER THAN TIGHT (THROATS ARE GOOD THOUGH), AND I PUSHED THE 45 COLT TO 454 EQUIVALENTS IN 'em. EVENTUALLY I JUST WENT TO THE 454 CYLINDERS WITH 454 CASES. BUT I HAVE A 7.5" MODEL 97 45 COLT ON THE WAY, WHICH I SUSPECT I AM REALLY GONNA LIKE WITH OPTICS (A RED DOT) FOR HUNTING.

[wyomingnimrod]

Apr 7, 2024 7:08:07 GMT -5 45MAN said:

MY 5 MODEL 83 454's ALL HAVE XTRA 45 COLT CYLINDERS, BUT ALL THE 45 COLT CYLINDERS ARE CHAMBERED LOOSE RATHER THAN TIGHT (THROATS ARE GOOD THOUGH), AND I PUSHED THE 45 COLT TO 454 EQUIVALENTS IN 'em. EVENTUALLY I JUST WENT TO THE 454 CYLINDERS WITH 454 CASES. BUT I HAVE A 7.5" MODEL 97 45 COLT ON THE WAY, WHICH I SUSPECT I AM REALLY GONNA LIKE WITH OPTICS (A RED DOT) FOR HUNTING.

Let us know how you like that 97 .45 Colt with the red dot…. I bet you dig it.

[45MAN]

THE RED DOT COMES WITH THE GUN BUT I DO BETTER WITH SCOPES AT 100 YARD TYPE DISTANCES, HANDGUN SCOPES I HAVE PLENTY OF, MAY EVEN HAVE A MODEL 97 SCOPE MOUNT BUT IF NOT ONE IS EASY ENUFF TO GET.

[jeffer]

I am partial to the 4.75" myself for Freedom Arms 83s.... Decided I needed a few 454s a 475 and then a bfr in 500 just for good measure.