The 357

[bigbore5]

I've been reading the information on the LASC site on heat treatment of cast bullets. May have to give it a try.

My 357s tend to lead worse than any others. My alloy is about 14bhn water dropped and aged a month. It's half and half clip-on and stick-on weights. I've been lubing with RCBS lube, but finally got some more LBT soft blue.

All my cylinder throats have been corrected by Fermin to .358", I size .3585". Any thread constriction has been corrected.

I still have leading issues, but only with the .357s. It's driving me nuts.

[mhblaw]

Not sure what your objective is, but you might try powder coated bullets. Many makers will size them to your spec, or you could do likewise. Caveat: I am not a bullet caster.

[boolitdesigner]

Mar 1, 2023 19:18:31 GMT -5 bigbore5 said:

I've been reading the information on the LASC site on heat treatment of cast bullets. May have to give it a try.

My 357s tend to lead worse than any others. My alloy is about 14bhn water dropped and aged a month. It's half and half clip-on and stick-on weights. I've been lubing with RCBS lube, but finally got some more LBT soft blue.

All my cylinder throats have been corrected by Fermin to .358", I size .3585". Any thread constriction has been corrected.

I still have leading issues, but only with the .357s. It's driving me nuts.

The above statement is an anomaly. That alloy (when I put it together with my lead) water dropped produces a 20 BHN bullet for me at that time period. Something is going on! I'm not getting leading in any of the 357 Mags I shoot it in. 

[bigbore5]

Mar 1, 2023 20:19:08 GMT -5 mhblaw said:

Not sure what your objective is, but you might try powder coated bullets. Many makers will size them to your spec, or you could do likewise. Caveat: I am not a bullet caster.

I do cast my own. I tried powder coating, but have gone back to traditional lube in the 357's.

[bigbore5]

Mar 2, 2023 11:22:25 GMT -5 boolitdesigner said:

Mar 1, 2023 19:18:31 GMT -5 bigbore5 said:

I've been reading the information on the LASC site on heat treatment of cast bullets. May have to give it a try.

My 357s tend to lead worse than any others. My alloy is about 14bhn water dropped and aged a month. It's half and half clip-on and stick-on weights. I've been lubing with RCBS lube, but finally got some more LBT soft blue.

All my cylinder throats have been corrected by Fermin to .358", I size .3585". Any thread constriction has been corrected.

I still have leading issues, but only with the .357s. It's driving me nuts.

The above statement is an anomaly. That alloy (when I put it together with my lead) water dropped produces a 20 BHN bullet for me at that time period. Something is going on! I'm not getting leading in any of the 357 Mags I shoot it in. 

I sorted these out of old weights myself from some we've had 20 years or more. No zinc found at all. I smelted and cleaned the weights separately, fluxing with bees wax. Mixed the COWW and SOWW half and half by weight in a 200 pound melt.

I cast at 750, temp controlled by pid and double check with analog thermometer. Dropping into ambient temperature water.

45's and 500's are 35,000psi max. No leading. Most my 357's are around 40,000. Lead severely.

[gnappi]

Mar 2, 2023 23:15:59 GMT -5 bigbore5 said:

Mar 1, 2023 20:19:08 GMT -5 mhblaw said:

Not sure what your objective is, but you might try powder coated bullets. Many makers will size them to your spec, or you could do likewise. Caveat: I am not a bullet caster.

I do cast my own. I tried powder coating, but have gone back to traditional lube in the 357's.

Hmmm...  why did you go back to lube? I've PC'd my bullets now over 2-1/2 years (with help from folks at castboolits.com) and I wouldn't go back to lubricating. Once I got a paint formulation and process that passes the hammer smash test I treat most finished bullets at the very least as TMJ for load data. No smoke from lube, no leading, no sticky star sizers, no goop in bullet storage buckets (plastic coffee containers) and no fouling of my seat die with wax. 



 

[bigbore5]

Mar 3, 2023 0:07:52 GMT -5 gnappi said:

Mar 2, 2023 23:15:59 GMT -5 bigbore5 said:

I do cast my own. I tried powder coating, but have gone back to traditional lube in the 357's.

Hmmm...  why did you go back to lube? I've PC'd my bullets now over 2-1/2 years (with help from folks at castboolits.com) and I wouldn't go back to lubricating. Once I got a paint formulation and process that passes the hammer smash test I treat most finished bullets at the very least as TMJ for load data. No smoke from lube, no leading, no sticky star sizers, no goop in bullet storage buckets (plastic coffee containers) and no fouling of my seat die with wax. 



 

I have to size them anyway. By the time I coated them and sized them, there's really no time saving, other than some of the leading in the 357's there's no difference in performance in my other cartridges. I find sitting at my bench sizing and reloading relaxing, while pc'ing was not. Heating the pc to cure also changes the hardness of my alloy, which is running soft anyway, possibly causing some skidding, which I believe is what's causing the leading issues to begin with. Traditional lube doesn't really give up anything to pc.

[2 Dogs]

Feb 26, 2023 19:23:24 GMT -5 @professor said:

Please describe how skidding is detected in bullets.

Skidding or flashing to me is the onset of leading. I’m good for about 2-3” groups at 50-60 yards (depending on where the shade or horse poop is) on a steel plate. If I start with a clean sixgun and after a few rounds I see a deterioration of accuracy I can tell something is going on in the barrel that isn’t good for accuracy.

[2 Dogs]

I think it was Contender who mentioned “hot rodding”.

Shooting .357 Magnum loads is not hot rodding. This thread is about .357 Magnum loads. You can shoot 38-44 level loads in your .357 sixguns but that’s not what this thread is about.

[woody]

Mar 5, 2023 12:15:27 GMT -5 2 Dogs said:

I think it was Contender who mentioned “hot rodding”.

Shooting .357 Magnum loads is not hot rodding. This thread is about .357 Magnum loads. You can shoot 38-44 level loads in your .357 sixguns but that’s not what this thread is about.

I totally agree. I run most my .357’s at the top end. One of the only cartridges i do that with. Someday I will have a FA 353 and take it to a new level!!!!

[bigbore5]

My 353 matches the maxi's velocity but kills brass in a shot or two. I backed off loads for it and just use the max if I want more.

[hounddogman]

Speaking of hot rodding, the most accurate load I've used in a 4 3/4" blackhawk converted to a bisly is a 180 XTP with a over current book load of 15 grains of H110. On a good day it'll do one ragged hole at 25 yards. Also the most accurate in a marlin 94 . I do not use this load in my flat top ( anniversary model) or the Smiths.

[contender]

Yes,, I mentioned "hot-rodding" in a previous post.

I was more thinking about the people who think a reloading manual is just a guideline & exceed the limits a lot.

Just a little clarification.

Max loading in my opinion has often not been the most accurate. Yet,, occasionally a max or near max load can be the most accurate one. That's why we test, re-test, test some more. This is why I really enjoy this thread.

[2 Dogs]

Mar 5, 2023 23:21:50 GMT -5 hounddogman said:

Speaking of hot rodding, the most accurate load I've used in a 4 3/4" blackhawk converted to a bisly is a 180 XTP with a over current book load of 15 grains of H110. On a good day it'll do one ragged hole at 25 yards. Also the most accurate in a marlin 94 . I do not use this load in my flat top ( anniversary model) or the Smiths.

Hmmm. At first I didn’t quite get all the details and was going to ask if you were indeed running that load in a full size BH so this is an edit. Apologies. Still, I’m encouraged to know some guys recognize the differences in the various.357’s. On a side note (hijack) I find the XTP to be across the board the most accurate bullet I have shot in my handguns.

Perhaps we need to go a bit further and define what level of a load we think is appropriate for a given sixgun platform. Like Wayne above, while not a FA353, I do have a Harton custom full length cylinder full size BH that I’m sure is ruin cases in 2 loadings strong. Nonetheless it seems obvious that some limitations would apply.

Contender, thanks for your thoughts and not taking my comments the wrong way. I also meant to mention I recently acquired a 10” Octagon .357 Magnum barrel. I wonder what you have found that works well in yours?

[boolitdesigner]

Interesting pressure ranges of 38 Special and longer cases. 357 Mag. - 43,000 PSI, 357 Max. - 40,000 PSI. Note the incongruity there. I know of a couple of longer than Mag cases that (in my samples weighed more) had heavier construction. A little looking and you might find a "gasket" that would allow you to really push it in an appropriate firearm and not have the case wilt.