mar
.30 Stingray
Posts: 180 
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Post by mar on Jan 6, 2020 13:02:44 GMT -5
Ronnie Thank you so much for the comparisons. The Bisley junior is what I think I will get for my SS but I will wait for the pictures to make sure. Thanks again for all of your time and efforts with this project! Marshall Ronnie I just placed order for Brass Bisley junior for my Single Six! I can’t wait till it gets here. Thank you, Marshall |
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Post by RDW on Jan 6, 2020 15:54:42 GMT -5
Marshall i am pimpin it for you as we speak!
Thank you so much for the order!
I would also like to thank everyone for the aluminum orders over the holidays.
I had a hell of a time getting my alum supply restocked. No body wanted to work at my suppliers. It really chap my hide and i passed it along to there superiors.
I truly understand the festive mood and the Christmas spirit, but i had orders and i wanted them filled. So after chewing a few dozen Behinds i gotter done.
Everything shipped yesterday.
Thanks again all of you.
Ronnie
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Post by bradshaw on Jan 7, 2020 16:31:09 GMT -5
Ronnie.... reckon the boys & girls are champion at the bit too see your wonderful graphics to visually compare your gripframes with factory Ruger, etc.
Folks, what is happening here, Ronnie Wells takes custom single actions to an individual level that doesn’t disturb the original gun. Advancing individual marksmanship in the process. Leastwise, this is my prediction. The jewelry factor comes along for the ride. The performance factor defines improvement.
David Bradshaw
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Post by RDW on Jan 7, 2020 21:16:33 GMT -5
Hey Guys. Been fitting one of my favorite 38/40s with a various selection of different frames! If i get hit with the mood, ill just change it out. Haha. I have a standard bis for it, All 3 SBHs, XR3, XR3 RED, XR3 RED + .300 with a bisley trigger, A Keith # 5 Standard Bisley Trigger and an original, A birdsley and a Kbird Now a PJRB, and a junior bis is next! This one is a Potato Judge. I really like it to. Made the grips real thin.  |
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Post by RDW on Jan 7, 2020 21:25:43 GMT -5
Not Good Pictures But, Give a little look see!  |
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Post by bradshaw on Jan 8, 2020 9:33:00 GMT -5
Ronnie.... your micarta looks bulletproof. Aside from durability, micarta has a tactile consistency through environmental extremes. The main quality in grip friction serves at the MOMENT of RECOIL, the first reaction of revolver to bullet movement. As we have discussed, recoil begins before the bullet exits the muzzle. Although the vast EXTERIOR EFFECT of RECOIL takes place well after the bullet sails downrange, accuracy requires the initial jolt to be consistent. One thousandt-inch here equals 12-inches down yonder.... something to that effect. The initial jolt takes place no matter the grip on the gun or whether we hold it like a feather or strangle it. The initial jolt remains. Keeping that shock consistent allows FOLLOW THROUGH to handle the rest.
To this end I believe a flat grip isn’t much use on a single action----or a revolver with the double action hump at the top of the backstrap. A flat grip contradicts the flow of the instrument. A few hands may take to flattened scales. I reckon most hands prefer round. That handle corrects the exaggerated taper in thickness, from thick at bottom to thin at top, which plagues the traditional action, a feature especially exaggerated on Ruger’s over the years.
Flat goes with automatics; round goes with revolvers. With or without palm swell, rounded endures.
Greatly appreciate your work to advance our shooting,
David Bradshaw
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Post by RDW on Jan 8, 2020 10:15:13 GMT -5
I Love Palm swells But mine are to thick for most people! I totally agree with you David on the shapes being more round giving consistency on the Rise and Roll of the gun in your hand! I wanted a few of my freinds here to try this shape so i thinned this one down a smidge so they could hang on to it. I will be making of course a set that fit me better but i have a lot of people interested in the PJ so i need to have something for them to try. I wish we all weren't so far apart! It sure would be easier for everybody to get a feel of all of these. The Bradshaw Bisley is almost Ready, heres a teaser. Bradshaw 3/16 Back more knuckle room, 4 more points of arc angle to the length of trigger pull! 2 more degrees of forward roll. Balances muzzle Rise and push back to almost even, Just like you Figured! Cant wait to put one on a 500, and test this Mammy out! Bradshaw is Black Standard Bisley in Red! Enjoy Brother!   |
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Post by needsmostuff on Jan 8, 2020 10:32:32 GMT -5
Now a PJRB, and a junior bis is next! This one is a Potato Judge. I really like it to. Made the grips real thin. WOW, When I looked at the graphics or picture of the naked gripframe I could not see the point. Seeing it on a gun was all it took . That looks Sooooooo cool. |
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Post by RDW on Jan 8, 2020 10:35:56 GMT -5
Now a PJRB, and a junior bis is next! This one is a Potato Judge. I really like it to. Made the grips real thin. WOW, When I looked at the graphics or picture of the naked gripframe I could not see the point. Seeing it on a gun was all it took . That looks Sooooooo cool. It Sure feels good to shoot and if you have a big boomer theres enough meat behind the trigger to cut it out a smidge more! |
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Odin
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,099
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Post by Odin on Jan 8, 2020 16:34:58 GMT -5
...Ronnie Wells takes custom single actions to an individual level that doesn’t disturb the original gun. Advancing individual marksmanship in the process. Leastwise, this is my prediction... The performance factor defines improvement...
David BradshawDavid, could you take a moment to talk about the modifications you asked Ronnie to make to the Bisley grip for the new "Bradshaw Bisley" as he calls it. What was your intent? More knuckle room for heavy loads? Or gloved shooting? Change the direction/feel of the recoil impulse? Or a bit longer reach to the trigger for those with large "lean" hands? All of the above??? |
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groo
.327 Meteor
I yet live!!!!
Posts: 855
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Post by groo on Jan 8, 2020 17:06:08 GMT -5
Groo here
I am saving up for your rounded standard grip [not birds head] in brass..
What Bisley hammer did you design for?
I want to keep the new model action [ loading gate makes cylinder spin] with the Bisley hammer..
After that, cut the barrel to 3 3/4in [my fave] and maybe a trigger job and I am good to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by potatojudge on Jan 8, 2020 17:12:21 GMT -5
Groo here I am saving up for your rounded standard grip [not birds head] in brass.. What Bisley hammer did you design for? I want to keep the new model action [ loading gate makes cylinder spin] with the Bisley hammer.. After that, cut the barrel to 3 3/4in [my fave] and maybe a trigger job and I am good to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you're taking a New Model it's factory style Bisley hammers (not the kind modified by removing the hump for plow handle grip frames). If you're starting with a Bisley New Model, it's just a simple grip frame swap with no other changes required. |
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Post by bradshaw on Jan 8, 2020 18:42:51 GMT -5
David, could you take a moment to talk about the modifications you asked Ronnie to make to the Bisley grip for the new "Bradshaw Bisley" as he calls it. What was your intent? More knuckle room for heavy loads? Or gloved shooting? Change the direction/feel of the recoil impulse? Or a bit longer reach to the trigger for those with large "lean" hands? All of the above???
----odin
*****
odin.... in competing early day silhouette, my two main sixgun were a Model 29 8-3/8”, and pre-New Model Super Blackhawk with brass grip frame. Coming to grips with the .44 Mag over long strings of fire, with no forgiveness on the target end, involved a steady diet of experiment. I came to notice two qualities of the brass grip frame Ruger----both POSITIVE----which I expect the handles of Ronnie Wells to repeat and amplify. Suffice to say, it is young shooters who should take care of their anatomy now so they enjoy throwing lead from now on. To shoot Ronnie’s brass before commenting further, density of experience, should improve perspective.
In discussions of GRIPS & RECOIL with Ronnie, and especially after seeing his gripframe graphics, I suggested we establish a way of measuring LOP (Length of Pull) for revolvers. My suggestion:
Revolver LOP
1) draw a line straight back from the center of the trigger----parallel to the bore. Measure along this line...
2) distance from TRIGGER GUARD to FRONTSTRAP.
3) distance from TRIGGER GUARD to BACKSTRAP.
These two measures meant are Length of Pull. This is one way to compare grips. On a rifle or shotgun, LOP is measured between TRIGGER and BUTTPLATE. Fine of a shoulder arm; useless for a revolver. Triggers on revolvers take various positions----at rest, cocked, single action, double action----too confusing. Without consideration of the shooter's hand.
Ronnie Wells has another idea, to pinpoint the DYNAMIC CENTER of the gripframe. Specific to single actions with continuous arc backstrap.
Now, to directly answer your question:
* To conserve the Ruger Bisley while increasing length of pull.
* To delay the MOMENT of RECOIL a split thousandth of a second.
Benefits may include
* Shift in-barrel movement rearward to delay muzzle rise.
* Slow hand movement on grip.
* Increase gap between middle finger and trigger guard.
* Reduce vertical dispersion caused by velocity spread.
David Bradshaw
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Post by squawberryman on Jan 8, 2020 19:27:03 GMT -5
I think it's awesome and funny that on March 18th of last year Magnumwheelman started a thread about "CNC brass grip frames, what's it worth to ya", then on June 21 Ronnie posts a pic of a PAAAAAAAAL of grip frames. since then at least two people (potato and Bradshaw) have one named after them, some people have more than one, some people got some by surprise, etc...
The application is truly limitless and the supplier is happy as a pig, well...
It has been fun to watch and pay attention to what has happened here. Glad to be aboard.
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Post by RDW on Jan 8, 2020 20:56:46 GMT -5
David, could you take a moment to talk about the modifications you asked Ronnie to make to the Bisley grip for the new "Bradshaw Bisley" as he calls it. What was your intent? More knuckle room for heavy loads? Or gloved shooting? Change the direction/feel of the recoil impulse? Or a bit longer reach to the trigger for those with large "lean" hands? All of the above??? ----odin ***** odin.... in competing early day silhouette, my two main sixgun were a Model 29 8-3/8”, and pre- New Model Super Blackhawk with brass grip frame. Coming to grips with the .44 Mag over long strings of fire, with no forgiveness on the target end, involved a steady diet of experiment. I came to notice two qualities of the brass grip frame Ruger----both POSITIVE----which I expect the handles of Ronnie Wells to repeat and amplify. Suffice to say, it is young shooters who should take care of their anatomy now so they enjoy throwing lead from now on. To shoot Ronnie’s brass before commenting further, density of experience, should improve perspective. In discussions of GRIPS & RECOIL with Ronnie, and especially after seeing his gripframe graphics, I suggested we establish a way of measuring LOP (Length of Pull) for revolvers. My suggestion: Revolver LOP1) draw a line straight back from the center of the trigger----parallel to the bore. Measure along this line... 2) distance from TRIGGER GUARD to FRONTSTRAP. 3) distance from TRIGGER GUARD to BACKSTRAP. These two measures meant are Length of Pull. This is one way to compare grips. On a rifle or shotgun, LOP is measured between TRIGGER and BUTTPLATE. Fine of a shoulder arm; useless for a revolver. Triggers on revolvers take various positions----at rest, cocked, single action, double action----too confusing. Without consideration of the shooter's hand. Ronnie Wells has another idea, to pinpoint the DYNAMIC CENTER of the gripframe. Specific to single actions with continuous arc backstrap. Now, to directly answer your question: * To conserve the Ruger Bisley while increasing length of pull. * To delay the MOMENT of RECOIL a split thousandth of a second. Benefits may include* Shift in-barrel movement rearward to delay muzzle rise. * Slow hand movement on grip. * Increase gap between middle finger and trigger guard. * Reduce vertical dispersion caused by velocity spread. David Bradshaw Well put David Well put! Gentlemen i have found some math in these various configurations and have a theory on recoil velocity and amount of rearward push that is now, through experiment starting to make sense! The differences between the different styles of grip frames, EFFECT on as (david explains) the way the revolver rotates in your Hand. We have discussed many options and conditions that we both believe can make a difference in the way the gun rotates in your hand. If we can build a platform of design that can improve consistency then we all win. I have noticed that the higher the pressure the round, The faster the velocity of muzzle flip. The heavier the bullet the more it pushes backward. The difference in the super blackhawk hunter versus the Ruger Bisley to me with 454 has been, The SBH-H flips up very high ,very quickly but doesn't seem to push back as far because the position of your hand is much further turned downward. More of an angle. the muzzle flip on the bisley is not as bad but the gun comes backward faster and with more force because your Hand is more strait up and down. Picture holding a broom stick straight out in front of you with the top and the bottom perfectly vertical.(Bisley) ! Then tilt the broom stick forward 8 degrees (Super BH) In the following pictures you are going to see where me and mr Bradshaw are going with this. To Balance the power of motion evenly in the manner that the recoil is transferred to your Hands. No Carpal Tunnel Boys! You Will Notice That the SBH has a Rake angle of 108 degrees as the Bisley is at 100 degrees. You hand is turned down forward more than with the Bisley giving less movement upward on the bisley as the muzzle flips upward. With your hand turned forward and down you have more travel available to turn upwards with the super BH. Spreading the love out over more bones in your wrist. I have had several close friends who were hand surgeons and i have numerous pictures of the Human hand and wrist anatomy. During heavy muzzle flip the Scaphoid and the Trapezium take the worst hit against the Radius! During heavy push Back the Lunate and Triquetrum get Hammered and they are smaller bones but all push up against the Radius leaving the Ulna alone. The Knuckle of the Proximal and Middle of the middle Phalanges is the one that the bisley shows so much love to. LOL If you notice F you will see where the back of the shell slams in to the back of the Frame at firing. That is where all of the ferocity is introduced. And where we are looking for answers that coincide with the rotation angle in your hand. B and E on the bisley are only .0072 thousandths apart. On the super Blackhawk it is almost 3/16 of an inch. What we have done is positioned the centers of length of pull to match the Super blackhawks by moving it backward 3/16. While maintaining the curvature and smoother rolling top of the backstrap. At the same time we have added more natural distance between the knuckle and the trigger guard. I believe that one carefully controlled experiment is worth a thousand opinions. ( heard that somewhere) There is a lot more to explain but if you study the geometry you will see the difference. What we are trying to do here is figure out a way to make the most consistent rotating grip frame that will spread and smooth out as much recoil to the hand as possible. I believe in doing so we will create comfort and consistency in your marksman ship! I beleive there has always been a way to improve it and still Look Coooool! We are sure working on it!   I know there will be questions so this should give us a reference to look at! Thanks Guys Ronnie |
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