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Post by bradshaw on Apr 17, 2015 10:31:40 GMT -5
Lockwork lubrication
Steel likes lubrication. Stainless steel often demands lubrication. Trigger work which depends on dryness to be reliable is fugitive trigger work. Oil migrates, it likes to crawl over parts. Rather that to worry about lubrication creeping into the trigger/hammer engagements, consider this: lubrication prolongs service life.
Durability of lubricated steel speaks for itself.
Ther are exceptions. The bolt of the T/C Contender is meant to be DRY. Conceptually, recoil acts to unlock the Contender. The Contender breech, water table, and bolt underwent improvement in the late 1970's to handle more powerful cartridges. Directive to keep bolt free of lubrication continues.
David Bradshaw
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Post by bradshaw on Apr 17, 2015 10:33:03 GMT -5
Fermin..... please keep us tuned in.
DavidBradshaw
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Post by 2 Dogs on Apr 17, 2015 11:14:55 GMT -5
Fermin..... please keep us tuned in. DavidBradshaw All I can do is add this to our "to do" list. Otherwise, I would be very interested to see your comments on tuning the Contender/Encore guns. My Encore has a trigger that is awfully heavy.... |
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Post by bradshaw on Apr 17, 2015 15:31:33 GMT -5
Fermin.... Mike Bellm @ Bellm's TC, (5412) 956-6938, can guide you or do the trigger on your Encore. I haven't gone inside an Encore. Encore triggers vary; some almost reasonable, some surly.
David Bradshaw
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jsh
.327 Meteor
Posts: 884
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Post by jsh on Apr 18, 2015 12:38:58 GMT -5
A trigger job can be done fairly easy. Bellms springs are the easy way out. I have my encore around 12 ounces and it is safe, no push off. G2 takes the same springs.
A little stone work helps but isn't a must.
The spring pliers are worth the $ if you are going to do several.
Jeff
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Post by jayhawker on Apr 18, 2015 19:04:42 GMT -5
We used to use STP oil addative in our fast draw guns as it stayed where we put it. STP on the SA Colt hanner cam did not work its way out to the locking bolt head.
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Post by 2 Dogs on Apr 18, 2015 19:06:36 GMT -5
Motor oil works great!
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Post by goodtime on Apr 18, 2015 19:46:19 GMT -5
+1 on the motor oil. That's what I use on all my guns. |
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Post by whiterabbit on Oct 30, 2015 10:44:54 GMT -5
Mr. 2 Dogs.... good question, about to receive a lousy answer. I have attempted to measure the height of the hammer dog, by extending the tail of a caliper from dog to notch. My reading are inconsistent, therefore useless. I proceed by feel, and never sacrifice REGAIN for imaginary perfection. (For those just dropping by, REGAIN is a hook quality in the angles interfacing hammer and trigger.) My final test involves minimum 25 squeezes. Employing the most delicate accumulation of pressure, the trigger sweeps rearward at the moment of hammer fall. That tests correct engagement. A fixture might limit stock removal, but I don't have one. Therefore, I don't know whether distance between hammer pivot and full cock notch might vary from hammer to hammer. Ruger SA trigger work----two ways:1) dead clean break. Light for silhouette. Heavier for hunting. This letoff is found on my Silhouette Super and .357 Maximum, etc. 2) smooth take-up. Whether set for a light or heavier letoff, there is a large contact patch (engagement patch). Which makes for a durable fast draw engagement. The Ruger 03 sports this arrangement. Two advantages of Ruger New Model hammer and trigger:Hammer----a flute at the back of the notch facilitates cleaning underside of dog. Trigger----thick sear tip much stronger than thin Peacemaker sear. Note for old model (Peacemaker-type)----the old model hammer notch has a square corner. Very few tools qualify to touch it. Most tools which claim to be square produce a radiussed corner at the bottom of the notch, which a sharp trigger sear must rub. As you well know, the resulting sensation will make you reach for a straight jacket. To clean a square notch, I use a ceramic stone----made, I believe by Coors----which has a sharp square angle. It has no other job. A jig which measures both pin-to-notch, followed by pin-to-dog, should allow for a consistent dog-height and letoff. David Bradshaw Hi David, I think this thread is the appropriate one to discuss this. I have a new brownells-bought hammer for my New Model Ruger. As expected, out of the box wasn't right (which I like! It means I can fit it to "as good as I am able to get it") But the regain, and also a second factor are getting me. First, there seems to be lots of take up. That is, when I pull the hammer back, the trigger moves back, back, back... Then snaps forward as it drops into the dog. This makes for a long pull, not so breaks-like-glasssy that we love so much in a trigger. I guess this is what stoning the hammer notch as per picture in post 1 will correct, right? Next, I have no regain. At the moment the trigger breaks, the trigger appears to begin forward motion, not rearward. Nothing "pops", (I don't think), but definitely no rearward motion. So according to your posts, my regain is not as it should be. But what I've been missing, is how do I fix it? Can I fix it without replacing the trigger? |
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Post by whiterabbit on Oct 30, 2015 10:49:42 GMT -5
Frankly you have me questioning if the take-up is a bad thing in this case. It's a short-barrel, unlikely to be for "real" hunting. For carrying in the woods, for 25 yard indoor shooting. Not for fast draw, but that seems a "more appropriate" direction to go than for a "glassy-but->4lb" break. or is it?
In either case, I'm interested in your thoughts on how to fix regain, regardless if it is caused by oversized or unfit parts, or a previous bubba (I buy used guns).
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Post by bradshaw on Oct 30, 2015 11:10:13 GMT -5
Whiterabbit.... REGAIN is a mechanical concept in which angles of engagement incline to pull together, or engage. In presence of long take-up, or creep, to partially pull trigger and stop before HAMMER FALL, the TRIGGER SEAR may not pop back into the HAMMER NOTCH. But it wants to, inclines to.
As opposed to a trigger champing at the bit to slip off the FULL COCK DOG.
The heavier the trigger spring, the better it conceals creep. The lighter the trigger spring, the more pronounced the creep----along with any irregularities in engagement surfaces.
You didn't say whether your new hammer is Ruger. Nor, whether the trigger has been worked on by a gorilla. We're looking for a bit more information. And, good pictures are golden.
At all hazards, the Fugitive Trigger Job inclines to trouble and failure. Not to mention misfire.
David Bradshaw
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Post by whiterabbit on Oct 30, 2015 12:44:34 GMT -5
New hammer is Ruger. Trigger history is unknown, gun is used. Will take photos tonight. Fortunately, the hammer movement at full cock is practically nil, so if the trigger has history, perhaps removing material is not among its history.
If the angles incline, then won't they naturally increase pull weight and be VERY sensitive (I mean really, really sensitive) to the surface polish?
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Post by Markbo on Oct 30, 2015 14:48:54 GMT -5
Tag for later reading/study
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Post by bradshaw on Oct 30, 2015 15:57:26 GMT -5
whiterabbit.... all New Model single action triggers move "back, back, back" as the hammer is cocked. As the transfer bar attaches to the trigger, and the transfer bar rests below the firing pin until the piece is made ready to fire, considerable trigger sweep is required to push the transfer bar up----to be in line with the firing pin at hammer fall.
The system doesn't lend itself to a trigger over-travel STOP. Which hasn't mattered in the most exacting revolver competitions. However, a fugitive trigger job causes the trigger to kick forward at hammer fall, which hardly helps hold the revolver still as a big ole slug blasts down the rifling on its way to the muzzle.
That your hammer has minute over-travel between reaching full cock and stopping against the grip frame suggests, as you indicate, a cannibal hasn't bitten off the end of the trigger. Your job now is to dry fire beaucoup plenty, and approach stone work with abiding patience.
David Bradshaw
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Post by whiterabbit on Oct 30, 2015 23:50:13 GMT -5
Thank you David. It appears I may have been a little hypochondriac with behavior at trigger break, but I would like this revolver to end up nice. I did take it to the range today to test it a bit, make sure it wont throw a rod, etc. That did seem to change how the trigger felt too. I did take pictures anyways and am always interested in your thoughts. Trigger at rest:  Trigger at just-before-the-hammer-catches  Trigger at full catch  It's very safe, but seems like it needs lots of pull before break. It can easily be seen how much movement there is between almost-catch and caught. I know I can address this via the pic in the first post of this excellent thread. ------------------------------- Here is the trigger:     Two surfaces were touched. the engagement surface and the back of the trigger too. The engagement surface looks a little smother in person than the unkind camera, but I could smooth that out if you think it's something that can can result in improved feel. ---------------- My hammer, after two passes with 320 grit paper on granite:     Looks like room for improvement here? I see now there is a "hard corner" the trigger will ride on as the hammer goes back. That can't be good. after I polished the first time like the pic, I tried to feather it during the second pass. Maybe that was not a wise choice. But surely a smoth hammer curve in this area is important for good feel during hammer pull? |
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