gnappi
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,394
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Post by gnappi on Dec 23, 2023 14:46:53 GMT -5
A complicated subject to be sure, thanks Burnston for bringing it up but IMO, there's no one size fits all solution for all occasions.
I have preached the vital aspects of being completely familiar with the manual of arms, and the carry method of their carry gun to those who regularly switch their EDC gun and holsters to no avail.
For folks going between carry (1911 and no holster retention for me) or hunting and fishing things get more complicated. A handgun slipping out of holster whilst in a boat over the briny depths is not an option. I've had to lean way out of my boats to gaff, net a fish or untangle crap off my propellers so my holster in a boat or other place over deep water always has some form of retention.
For hunting the manual of arms and appropriate carry method is best resolved with the purpose at hand. To me being where a run in is possible with dangerous game I'd only carry a non scoped DA/SA big bore in a holster sans retention. Hunting not dangerous smaller game like deer antelope, hogs etc. a Blackhawk in one caliber or another and retention or not would be optional.
To illustrate why no SAO revolver for dangerous game, I discovered that my BFR will NOT fire after a failed half cock without rotating the cylinder by hand to the next chamber. The BH and Fa do not have this issue.
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Post by bigbore5 on Dec 23, 2023 20:10:27 GMT -5
I've never checked a bfr for that failure to fire. I'll have to check mine now
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gnappi
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,394
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Post by gnappi on Dec 23, 2023 21:22:17 GMT -5
I noticed it after a right thumb connective tissue injury made cocking sometimes inconsistent. For sure post your results and any others here who own a BFR.
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Post by bigbore5 on Dec 23, 2023 21:49:38 GMT -5
gnappi, mine still cocks fine after pulling hammer halfway back and dropping on 7 different ones.
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gnappi
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,394
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Post by gnappi on Dec 24, 2023 0:29:56 GMT -5
gnappi , mine still cocks fine after pulling hammer halfway back and dropping on 7 different ones. Well then mine has a problem. :-( Dang it, I'll call them Tuesday.
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Post by hunter01 on Dec 24, 2023 9:33:40 GMT -5
I noticed it after a right thumb connective tissue injury made cocking sometimes inconsistent. For sure post your results and any others here who own a BFR. I just checked the one I have sitting here. It’s an older 5 shot 454 but a pillager gun. It does what you said 50% of the time! Not good. I have 4 more and will be checking them asap. I have been thinking about the subject a little bit lately. If I lived in DG territory, my EDC would be a RedHawk Alaskan or a smith mountain gun I believe. Probably wouldn’t give up the single actions as primary hunters though.
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gnappi
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,394
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Post by gnappi on Dec 24, 2023 9:43:42 GMT -5
I noticed it after a right thumb connective tissue injury made cocking sometimes inconsistent. For sure post your results and any others here who own a BFR. I just checked the one I have sitting here. It’s an older 5 shot 454 but a pillager gun. It does what you said 50% of the time! Not good. I have 4 more and will be checking them asap. I have been thinking about the subject a little bit lately. If I lived in DG territory, my EDC would be a RedHawk Alaskan or a smith mountain gun I believe. Probably wouldn’t give up the single actions as primary hunters though. Definitely not good. Mine does it in a "sweet spot" in the cock rotation 100% of the time :-( PS: What's DG territory?
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Post by x101airborne on Dec 24, 2023 10:14:19 GMT -5
Believe he means "Dangerous Game" although the distinction of wild hogs being on the "Non-Dangerous Game" list leaves me a little confused. I work ranches every day and I watch for them more than I watch for an ill tempered Brahma bull. I definitely put them down as "Dangerous Game".
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Post by bradshaw on Dec 24, 2023 10:32:56 GMT -5
To illustrate why no SAO revolver for dangerous game, I discovered that my BFR will NOT fire after a failed half cock without rotating the cylinder by hand to the next chamber. The BH and Fa do not have this issue. ***** This warrants a detailed description of the “will NOT fire” sequence. Especially since, to my knowledge, the BFR borrows the Ruger New Model transfer bar system.... Also, I don’t know what “a failed half-cock” is. Unless... it means the half-cock dog has broken (Colt SAA, etc.). Of all single actions, the Ruger New Model is the most difficult to short-stroke CARRY-UP when cocking is commented with cylinder in mid-rotation. David Bradshaw
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Post by bigbrowndog on Dec 24, 2023 10:57:47 GMT -5
I agree with Bradshaw, the use of ambiguous terms and individual personal occurrences does nothing but cloud the issue of the matter. Especially when making broad statements without research or proper investigation, and making those statements as a matter of fact. Stating that BFRs or FAs or whatever are prone to a particular fault simply because yours are, is doing a disservice to the firearm manufacturer. Just my .02 pfennig on the matter.
Trapr
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Post by hunter01 on Dec 24, 2023 11:33:09 GMT -5
Believe he means "Dangerous Game" although the distinction of wild hogs being on the "Non-Dangerous Game" list leaves me a little confused. I work ranches every day and I watch for them more than I watch for an ill tempered Brahma bull. I definitely put them down as "Dangerous Game". This area (Paducah texas namely) is known as the hog capital of the world for a reason. Hogs are daily business here. I have been chasing them around for decades with handguns and longbows and only one did I ever have legitimate FEAR of being harmed. I had snuck in to about 5yds on a sow and some piglets. The very slight breeze was perfect and I was thoroughly enjoying watching the piglets “play” on mom like a jungle gym. They would jump up on her side and slide off like little kids. Anyway, after quite a while I guess my scent saturated the area and mom jumped up running. She took the piglets and headed out across a wheat field looking back at the crest of a hill. Unbeknownst to me, there was a large boar with the family group and after the rest had made their way over the hill, he came back into the pocket of brush I was in to investigate! There wasn’t a tree in 100yds big enough to hold me off the ground as he came in popping his teeth like they do. I had only a Longbow and no sidearm. He eventually tired of scaring me and moved off. That’s the one and only time I had real fear when dealing with hogs. Now, I can get in a pen of piglets and scream like a little girl when they chase me even though it’s a reaction and not real fear. I personally don’t consider hogs DG under normal circumstances.
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Post by hunter01 on Dec 24, 2023 11:37:47 GMT -5
I agree with Bradshaw, the use of ambiguous terms and individual personal occurrences does nothing but cloud the issue of the matter. Especially when making broad statements without research or proper investigation, and making those statements as a matter of fact. Stating that BFRs or FAs or whatever are prone to a particular fault simply because yours are, is doing a disservice to the firearm manufacturer. Just my .02 pfennig on the matter. Trapr I love my BFR’s and I’m not knocking them. When Gnappi said he had an issue, I tried the one I had handy and it does the same thing. If you partially cock it and let the hammer back down, it will sometime bind up when you go to cock it again. The only way to unbind it is to rotate the cylinder to the next notch with your hand. The hammer cannot be pulled back until this is done. Not something I would care to deal with if a bear were gnawing on my leg. I likely never would have known or discovered this if Gnappi hadn’t pointed out that his gun was doing this. It’s not something that would happen in the course of a “normal” day but I could see short stroking or slipping off the hammer when things were happening fast and loud!
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Post by bigbrowndog on Dec 24, 2023 12:04:26 GMT -5
Hunter01 has just shared an experience that I can relate to. My experiences in dealing with hogs during hunting and animal abatement, crawling around on hands and knees in thick brush with both wounded and unharmed feral hogs for the last 40+ years has not once illicited any “charge” or “attack”. Do I respect their ability to inflict harm sure I do, do I think they intentionally seek out someone to harm them, No. Will they try and protect themselves,…..sure, might I be in their chosen escape route,……yep. But in my opinion, neither is an intentional attack or act. However I’m not going to claim that all pigs behave this way or that way, just that my experiences do not support the perceived behavior.
Trapr
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Post by bigbrowndog on Dec 24, 2023 12:15:35 GMT -5
Hunter my statement of ambiguous terms applies to the term half cock or short stroke or partially, etc. I read Bradshaw’s statement as asking for clarity in terms and I agree. The fact that Gnappi admits to realizing the issue due to his mishandling because of his tendon issue does not discount that an issue exists. That others have claimed no issue with their BFRs only clouds the issue, is it an anamoly that requires very specific conditions or a manipulation?? Then to claim that Ruger does not have this issue when the inner workings are the same or based on the same only clouds the issue further. An example would be that both my Rugers and FAs have on occasion done similar malfunctions, however I created them by way of modification or mis manipulation. Speculation without facts or clear and precise terms is not a good way of diagnosing any issue.
Trapr
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gnappi
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,394
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Post by gnappi on Dec 24, 2023 13:48:32 GMT -5
First off, "on MY gun" and it seems as if Hunter01's revolver there IS an issue and it's clearly not speculation, and there was no "disservice" implied or intended towards MR, just statement of the issue as it happened.
As you all know none of the SA's mentioned have a factory "half cock" I meant that the hammer slipped off my thumb or my injured or incompetent right thumb allowed the hammer to fall which caused the problem.
I did not think there was ambiguity but due to the fact that it was clear to at least to some, and others it was not, Mea Culpa.
To recreate the issue is simple, try cocking the hammer at "approximately" the half cock region and let the hammer fall. Mine will exhibit this whatever you want to call it issue 100% of the time.
And to be clear IMO this is not an entirely impossible scenario in the field either. Say you were about to take a shot at game and something happened mid stroke to make you decide to NOT take the shot and you let the hammer go to rest on the frame?
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