shorty500
.327 Meteor
too many dirty harry movies created me!
Posts: 912
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Post by shorty500 on Dec 16, 2023 23:59:18 GMT -5
Am 100% friction hold day to day! Luckily I’ve only twice really needed my handgun in an “emergency sitituation “ but both times it was free and clear of holster immediately! Once in similar situation to the OP with a crazed pit bull although mine was underfed starving vagrant type and a mean old beaver slough water moccasin in the other. No body including me would ever believe the cottonmouth story except for me and the ex-girlfriend that experienced it. I lived it and still have issues comphrending that I made the shot almost 15 years later
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Post by junebug on Dec 17, 2023 0:09:55 GMT -5
Glad you and your son are ok and you were armed. Danger doesn't just lurk in the cities it is everywhere and rarely will you have much time to react. You did well, did not hesitate, and thought on your feet. My carry gun is always carried in the same place. If I am carrying something extra it goes in a different place but my carry gun is still with me right where it belongs. Life's lessons are hard and sometimes painful, those we remember long after the pain is gone.
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Post by ridgerunner on Dec 17, 2023 7:34:20 GMT -5
Any dog can be vicious. The meanest dog I ever owned was a sweet looking black lab. I swear he would kill any stranger that entered our property. He was always on a strong leash or chained or inside. One day he ripped a big hole in the side of our yellow lab. The next day he moved on to dog heaven. The nicest dog I ever had was a 225 pound English Mastiff. His head was almost the size of a basket ball. Sometimes we would take him into town for a walk on the side walks. People would actually cross the street to avoid him. He was a sweetheart and wouldn't hurt anybody.
One time years ago when I was a still young I was working on a survey crew cutting brush with a machete. I heard a dog barking and snarling and looked up to see a chained German Shepard. And then his chain broke and he charged. I started to back up but got stopped by a tree and the dog kept coming. I raised the machete and was ready to hit him but for some reason he turned and walked away. I wanted to yell at him but my voice wouldn't work. I was truly scared sheitless.
In Pennsylvania open carry is legal so when I think I need to carry I open carry. Concealed carry makes it a lot more difficult to get to the pistol.
I'm glad to hear you and son are both doing well.
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weiler
.30 Stingray
Posts: 423
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Post by weiler on Dec 17, 2023 8:27:36 GMT -5
Way to be a great dad Ben! That “heart in your throat” feeling certainly throws you for a loop when it comes to your kids (mine are 2 and 5) and would test anyone’s training. There are some neighbors near my in-laws with pit bull’s that moved in….kids don’t get to play outside and I’ve mentally run thru the scenario on how to handle if something would happen, obviously would give my left arm for them
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Post by x101airborne on Dec 17, 2023 8:41:38 GMT -5
Many thanks offered to The Almighty for you and your son's safety and health. Yes, those situations come on FAST! That is why I always took training seriously. Train like you fight or die when it is real. Simple, easy to remember. I carry a 4 1/2 inch fixed blade on my off side. If I am wounded or as in your case, holding something back, I can still get to "some" weapon even if not the weapon I really want at that moment.
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Post by bigbore5 on Dec 17, 2023 8:48:47 GMT -5
Unfortunately for many of y'all, you're city or suburbs people. Many ranges don't allow draw and fire practice. Outside of service, I may have been to about 5 official shooting ranges except for shooting competitions that didn't allow draw and fire normally. I don't go back to them. Living in the country on my own land, there's draw and fire every time.
Draw and dry fire helps build up muscle memory for the technique, but it takes actually live firing for accuracy with the speed. I used to think I was fast and accurate until I got to run a few drills with some of the 1st SF guys.
Also in each situation so far, a key element is the person involved did not freeze or hesitate. They reacted aggressively rather than try to run. Running would have had a different ending and is behind most sever dog attacks on adults. I can manhandle my 135 and 147 pound Kangals and our 98 pound blue bully individually. And these are dogs that kill boar and have drug down 400 pound bear together, but aren't as tough individually.
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Post by bigbore5 on Dec 17, 2023 8:53:42 GMT -5
Way to be a great dad Ben! That “heart in your throat” feeling certainly throws you for a loop when it comes to your kids (mine are 2 and 5) and would test anyone’s training. There are some neighbors near my in-laws with pit bull’s that moved in….kids don’t get to play outside and I’ve mentally run thru the scenario on how to handle if something would happen, obviously would give my left arm for them My situation is exactly the opposite. I wouldn't dare let the grandkids outside to play without the bully going with them!
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Post by bula on Dec 17, 2023 8:57:49 GMT -5
Am also very glad for the outcome. Awaiting a fresh holster for my old Bulldog at the moment. The old Bianchi has gotten too sloppy. Concerned I'll get off the ATV at my camp or friends and find the holster empty. New holster is kydex, friction fit. With adrenalin dump, often fine motor skills are reduced. Congrats to DAD, willing and able to protect loved ones.
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Post by contender on Dec 17, 2023 10:58:49 GMT -5
First,, I too was glad to read of the good outcome for you & you kid. Stuff can easily go sour and results often not good at all. You did as any good parent would do,, protect your kid. Kudos!
Skills used in life saving incidents are often best when they have become ingrained into our motor memory. You were used to one type of holster retention,, and it caused a slower reaction by you on your part.
If you watch any of the action shooting games,, (like USPSA) where the competitors draw from a holster, and then shoot a course of fie,, you will see some amazing speeds by top level shooters. it's because they have practiced their draw & firing a LOT,, developing the motor memory skill. And as noted above,, outside competition,, it's often hard to find a gun range that allows a person to practice enough to become motor memory skill friendly with their chosen equipment. Easy fix; At home, WITH AN UNLOADED GUN, TRIPLE CHECKED FOR THAT!!!!!! Draw & dry fire practice. All top level competitors I know say they do a warm-up of draws & dry fires before any live fire practice at a range. And they also do a lot of at home dry practice as well.
It may not matter much which type of holster or retention system used,, (in general,) but it does matter that you have the motor memory skill to operate it quickly.
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Fowler
.401 Bobcat
Posts: 3,559
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Post by Fowler on Dec 17, 2023 13:45:16 GMT -5
This unfortunate situation also shows the need to know how to fight one handed as necessary. So often we will have one hand/arm full of a loved one, fighting off whatever assailant we are dealing with, pushing ourselves up off the ground whatever it may be. I know I rarely practice at the range from odd positions, firing one handed but something we probably all should do more often. At least up close, of course that’s where all of these fights happen. Any more than a couple of arms lengths distance makes it hard to justify that you had no choice but to shoot.
The thought of what would make the perfect back country defense gun always has been clouded for me by the vision of a bear on top of me chewing away and my sticking the barrel of a gun in its ribs and starting to pull the trigger of whatever gun I might have. A double action revolver probably gets off multiple shots, any auto loader? Harder to say. Even a singleaction wheelgun could be a lot to manipulate in those circumstances.
Just idle thoughts.
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Post by drycreek on Dec 17, 2023 16:08:38 GMT -5
Thank goodness no harm came to your son, and none serious to you. I can only imagine what went through your mind when you comprehended that your child was in danger. I had to shoot two dogs once that threatened my Jack Russell, but I had an AR 15 within easy reach. You were fortunate to see the attacking dog in time to prevent a terrible situation, and thank goodness you had something else to feed him in addition to your forearm.
On the subject of carrying different guns or different carry methods, I see your point. I do carry two different guns at times, but they are both striker fired and both are carried IWB at the same location EVERY TIME. I think that’s important if you intend to try to save yours or someone else’s life.
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Post by RDW on Dec 17, 2023 17:53:10 GMT -5
This thread could get sideways real quick if it werent for the open mindedness of the men on this forum and the capability of looking thru the opinions of dog breeds and sticking with the simple fact that both father and son were not harmed. Great out come, but the unfamiliarity of something as simple as a holster can be devistating. That is a scary scenario and one that makes me think twice about changes in my habits and holstering. Time is everything because bad stuff happens and you have got to act Now. Everything on this planet has an apparent nature and instinct. And you have to understand it, recognise the problem that may be in it and act accordingly especially when your mind was off enjoying the scenery and the good time with your son. Well Done man. Its always about the TOOLS. I once heard a woman going after a freind of mine about gun control in a party type situation were a simple statement about a christmas present to a son turned ugly real quick. He mentioned to a freind that he had bought is son his first rifle and was so excited about teaching him what his father had taught him and his grandfather before him to his own dad and the tradition that like minded men carry on. This woman went off on him. ( dont you know how many kids are killed every year from a gun. Dont you know that you are teaching him violence, didnt you know , Blah blah blah on and on.) He retorted that he wanted him to know and understand the discipline that goes with gun ownership and she told him that he was giving his son the TOOLS to be a violent killer when he grew up. I couldnt resist.
I simply asked her ( are you a prostitute) and she looked at me with the stink eye. And said why would i ask such a question. I asked her again are you a prostitute? She said no, of course not. I said well there you have it. You Have the tools to become one. But your up bringing and morality will never allow you to be one. She paused and said well you got me there. Im just scared of guns, and i said well before you go off on someone maybe you should think about who your talking to first because all of us here in this Room (men) Grew up with an arm on our hip and a rifle slung on our shoulders. And some in the room have signed a blank check to the United states government and the American people for everything they are, everything they have, and that includes there own life to insure that a woman like you can have an inexpereinced opinion and the right to voice it. Just make sure of your surroundings before you pick a fight with people who are highly experienced in a feild you are not familiar with. Familiarity is a a good thing. One that can unfold naturally and allow you to act even without thinking. I love dogs. I have a Rat dog that weighs about 10 pounds that was a real tough guy in his prime. His name is Camper. His wife is a 160 pounds Labradane that is as sweet as a sugar plum and her name is Tinkerbelle. She looks like a small brown bear. But they both have those instincts that can turn sour real quick. 3 years ago an opportunist jumped in my truck when i went into a parts store for some antifreeze. It never freezes down here but this time it did and i left the truck running so tinky would be warm. He had it in reverse when she came up out of the back. She was in the back of the truck were the rear seat would be and he did not see her. Wow, did she tear him a new one. He tried to exit but she got him and it was not pretty. She landed on top of him as he bailed back out the door and he started screaming like a little girl. She grabbed him by the keester and shook him like a rag doll. I got her off of him and he cleared 6 lanes of traffic in 3 seconds flat still screaming. The little fella in the parking lot that got my attention said he thought a bear came out of the back seat. Hahaha. Fact of the matter is that any dog can be viscious but the bigger they are and the breed line is very important. Pit Bulls can be very sweet but they have the tools in massive quantity do do some really bad stuff. If they are not socialised at a very young age, they once again have the tools to be really nasty. Huge jaws , massive bite force and a temperment that can only be rivaled by your worst nightmares. And faster than us on average. Much faster. If an un socialised chihuahua was as big as a standard pit bull, there would be 40 deaths a week in this country from dog attacks. Fact of the matter is they (PIT BULLS) are well over half of all lethal attacks in this country and i blame the fact that so many of these people train them to be that way. And when the get pissed they act badly. You just cant take a chance. They are very confident that they can take anything. One once came running up to Tinkerbelle here in the parking lot of the shop but i think when he realised she had over a hundred pounds on him he decided it was not going to be a good idea. Shes a big Girl However im confident that if he would have been in kill mode, he would have done some significant damage because he definately had the tools and i would not have hesitated to put a 125er in his head with my tool. When he rushed up barking i grabbed model 60 out of pocket but as he got closer he started slowing down and his tail started wagging so it was all good. I personally am cautious with the Various pitbull breeds because you dont know there story, but i have seen some that were just a sweet as could be. Sure glad it all worked out well for you and your boy. Scary man, just scary! R
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woody
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,116
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Post by woody on Dec 17, 2023 20:28:44 GMT -5
Since we’re telling pit bull stories I have a good one.
I worked with a guy that was a cop for years in a bigger city in NY. He took a call for a dangerous dog complaint one July afternoon. When he pulled down the street he k ew something was up. Not a soul to be seen. Usually a very busy street. Shortly after gettig out of his patrol car 2 pit bulls came running up the alley intent to tear him apart!!! So he draws his pistol and shoots at the several times. At the last second they turned and ran back the way they came. He was carrying I believe a S&W of some fashion. Maybe a Beretta. But for sure a 9 mm. The dogs were ably to cover a city block before they found them both dead.
There is a funny part of the story. When his Sgt showed up he asked him how many times did you shoot. He said 3-4 times. A little kid standing next to him that must have been watching from somewhere tugged on his pant leg and said”you shot 6 times”. He pulled the mag from his gun and counter how many rounds were missing. The little kid was right. 6 times. Lol. When they grow up around that life they don’t miss a thing. Lol
Pit bulls are a very dangerous dog!!! There were many in the city he worked. Bred for fighting and guarding drug houses. First thing they did when serving warrants and there was an pitbull involved was take it out with a shotgun before going in.
After that call he never felt confident in his pistol. Not a gun guy at all but he did know the 9 mm wasn’t what he wanted to protect his life with. He said what will happen when I need to shoot the drug fueled crazy guy on a call. Not bashing the 9mm by any means. I carry one sometimes but a crazies dog or human can take a lot to stop.
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Post by bigbore5 on Dec 17, 2023 22:11:11 GMT -5
I've spent alot of time socializing and training my blue pit. She's extremely intelligent and well behaved. Unfortunately, many owners do not put in the time, nor do they have the knowledge to train a big breed.
While she is well behaved and socialized, when I give her a pig femur to naw on, she will immediately bite it in half with her first bite. During training it is painful for her to bite down through the bite sleeve with 3" of padding. Her defense training is focused on disarm, then drag down and keep them there. I'm 6'2" 250 pounds, my training partner is 6'4" 280 pound athlete. She pulls us off our feet easily, and she is just playing a game.
Uncontrolled and undisciplined, these are dangerous dogs, but it is entirely the owners fault.
But the Kangals are bigger, stronger, not as intelligent, and more aggressive. Despite much care and training, they are more dangerous in general. I love them, but watch them closely at all times lest someone be seen by them as enemy.
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weiler
.30 Stingray
Posts: 423
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Post by weiler on Dec 17, 2023 22:43:13 GMT -5
. I couldnt resist. I simply asked her ( are you a prostitute) and she looked at me with the stink eye. And said why would i ask such a question. I asked her again are you a prostitute? She said no, of course not. I said well there you have it. You Have the tools to become one. But your up bringing and morality will never allow you to be one. She paused and said well you got me there. Im just scared of guns, R *slow clap*
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