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Post by RDW on Oct 8, 2020 11:20:34 GMT -5
What points would you guys use to sell someone on to the 357 maximum or any of the maximums? Such as, What gains are achieved, any benefits? Cuz its there! hahahaha. Joking man. For me its the Kewlness factor, and OH MY GOD I LOVE 414 SM. Fast and Flat. 445 Is Great to, but one ive always liked is 357 and 375. Long Stinky bullets and 1/14 twist .356 and 1/12 for the .375 straightens up all the mess experienced by myself. I have mentioned before a 1680 pushed .452 made from shortened 460 SW to 1.6" that i have gotten real attached to. I just want 6 of each. Cant help it. Guess im greedy Hahaha. R
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Post by ss30378 on Oct 8, 2020 11:23:57 GMT -5
Running my oversized cylinder in my 357mag bisley I can load out past 1.8" COL. If the gains I got from that are any reflection of what the maximum can obtain I'm all for it.
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Post by crazycarl on Oct 8, 2020 11:51:58 GMT -5
Here I am, saving my pennies for a brass PJ grip frame for my Max & Ronnie drops this teaser about Max length frames... Being a .41 nerd, I'ma hafta have a .414SM.
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Post by Lee Martin on Oct 8, 2020 11:58:14 GMT -5
Here I am, saving my pennies for a brass PJ grip frame for my Max & Ronnie drops this teaser about Max length frames... Being a .41 nerd, I'ma hafta have a .414SM. The .414 is the most overlooked of the Maximum/SuperMags. I've built a few and it's my favorite of the 1.600"s. Plenty of mass in a six-shot cylinder and it'll send 250 gr bullets to .357 Maximum speeds. -Lee www.singleactions.com"Chasing perfection five shots at a time"
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Post by AxeHandle on Oct 8, 2020 12:52:23 GMT -5
Cheap way will be to hard chrome an existing blue gun. Some chrome looks a lot like stainless. I've seen people on the verge of fighting about my hard chrome 1911 actually being stainless.
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Post by maxcactus on Oct 8, 2020 13:35:34 GMT -5
I'll take factory hard chrome just as quickly as stainless, Axe. I just want a Maximum Bisley Hunter. Ronnie, if you build them, I'll take THREE! Would love to have one in .357 Max, one in .375 and one in .414 cal.
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Post by seminolewind on Oct 8, 2020 15:02:10 GMT -5
What points would you guys use to sell someone on to the 357 maximum or any of the maximums? Such as, What gains are achieved, any benefits? For those of us who are feeling the effects of arthritis in wrists and knuckles, the 357 Max gives reach and power without punishment. The Max in a revolver with optics makes 200 yard shots possible with enough power to do the job when it gets there. Other cartridges will give the same performance without punishment, but not many in a revolver. Besides, as Ronnie says, it's just cool.
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Post by bradshaw on Oct 8, 2020 17:12:35 GMT -5
Cheap way will be to hard chrome an existing blue gun. Some chrome looks a lot like stainless. I've seen people on the verge of fighting about my hard chrome 1911 actually being stainless. ***** Negative on hard chrome to plate a .357 Maximum revolver. Plating done on barrel face/forcing cone of an SRM prototype began to fleck off on my first six shots of hot Remington experimental ammo. Plating done across street from Ruger's Southport plant by the outfit plating M-16 chambers for Colt. Stainless most probably the answer ro resist barrel face/forcing cone erosion. We proved strap cutting of Ruger’s chrome moly self-arrested in short order well before most gun writers knew the cartridge existed. But then, persons who helped derail the train weren’t into listening, nor learning enough to ask literate questions. David Bradshaw
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Post by RDW on Oct 8, 2020 17:50:54 GMT -5
Hear Hear! A holes should have done a little research of there own before running there mouth straight to print for the world to see before they knew what they were talking about.
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Post by contender on Oct 8, 2020 20:06:31 GMT -5
"What points would you guys use to sell someone on to the 357 maximum or any of the maximums? Such as, What gains are achieved, any benefits? "
Go & start reading the excellent stuff about the "Martin-Bradshaw" cast bullet that was designed especially for that caliber & gun. If that's not enough to sell it,, then,,, I'd say "Don't bother!"
I own 3 Ruger Maxi's,, and a couple of Contender barrels. I also own a pair of bullet molds,, of the Martin-Bradshaw design. 'Nuff said!
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Post by sixshot on Oct 8, 2020 21:46:43 GMT -5
Well, I'll say it again & I've said it many times before. We need the 357 Maximum because of the long range, low recoil potential that it offers. We have several shooters who have used it a great deal because it doesn't beat you up yet is capable of taking game at long range. We have David Bradshaw who has probably done more shooting with the Maximum than anyone to help work out any kinks from the first run of guns so how can we go wrong? The hunting crowd, and there are a lot of us really wants this gun, please make it happen!!
Dick
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Post by bradshaw on Oct 8, 2020 23:02:47 GMT -5
Believe a new .357 Maximum would best be made from 416 or 17-4 or some such stainless with the developed heat treatment well proven now to withstand both high chamber pressure AND barrel face erosion. Ruger’s 4140 chrome-moly withstood rather outlandish pressure without ill effect, cylinder & frame. Stainless named above should greatly retard said erosion. The cylinder face doesn’t erode; of course, a revolver chamber only experiences 1/5 or 1/6 combustion heat the barrel face catches. Abstain from all fast and medium powder, and any slow powder demonstrating aggressive erosion. It’s so easy to demonstrate the kind of trouble fast and medium powder can get you into trouble in a large capacity case.
Lee Martin’s advocacy of the .414 Super Mag is backed up by Ronnie Wells. I, for one, see no reason for the .445 Super Mag , although a tight single action should milk more from it than the Dan Wesson. As a cartridge, case efficiency of the .445 SM is nowhere near Dick Casull’s .454. The .414 SM borrows characteristics of the .357 Maximum in velocity at manageable recoil. The original .357 Maximum used a 1.490-inch case, shortly bumped by the two Bills to 1.605”.
Believe I made mention in one of my first photo essays of making consecutive 1-shot hits on a spaghetti pot @ 200 yards, first with a Federal .357 Mag 180 JHP; followed directly with a Winchester .38 Special 125 JHP. There was a steady breeze from 9 o’clock. Elevation and windage were pure Kentucky. Lightly freezing temperature in a diffused, bright yet almost shadowless sky. The .38 took two-thirds more left-Kentucky than the .357, and a chip more front sight. .38’s feel like a cap pistol in the Blackhawk Maximum, .357’s hardly more. While the Mag and especially the .38 Special had quite a jump in the Maximum chamber to enter the throat, I wanted to demonstrate the versatility of a proper .357 Maximum. The #357G used the 180 JHP Federal developed at my behest for the Maximum. Killed a couple of deer in Texas with that Federal #357G 180 JHP in a 6-inch stainless Python. Federal stopped production of 180 JHP Maximum loading after experiencing fierce spitting from Dan Wesson M-40’s.
I first saw the accuracy of .38 and .357 in SRM's behind Ruger’s house in Croydon, New Hampshire. Some Maximums had it, others not. Bullets as my teacher. It was a recess from cranking Maximums. David Bradshaw
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Post by Lee Martin on Oct 9, 2020 7:54:15 GMT -5
I own quite a few .357 Maximums by Ruger, United Sporting Arms, El Dorado Arms, and Dan Wesson. And I also have a 12" Contender barrel I've played with over the years. The question was asked, why stretch those cases to 1.6XX"? Having shot a ton of .357 Max, .375/.414/.445 SuperMag, and .500 Maximum, here's my two-cents (and my two-cents is nothing you haven't heard before). .357 Maximum 1) 200 - 220 grain bullets. The standard Mag can shoot them, but does so lethargically (1,000 - 1,200 fps). The Maximum adds 300 -400 fps. That stretches the .357's usable range, flattens trajectory, and hits harder. I believe, and David may echo this, that the longer 200 grain bullet shows better stability 100 yards and beyond. There are two ends of the spectrum at play here. You can either deathray 125's or send 200's at moderate speeds from a standard .357 Mag. My Magnums print better at distance with 180's - 200's than the lighter weights. Then step up to the Max, and those heavy bullets act like 125's (ie, what 125s typically do from medium size Magnums; FA 83s excluded). 2) Case life. I've leaned on .357 Magnums with 180's and 200's and the primer pockets go quicker. That 200 grain load @ 1,200 fps is compressed. On the other hand, David and I shoot 18.5 of IMR 4227 with our 194 Bradshaw-Martin @ 1,500 fps. I'll have to check, but I'm well past 20 reloads on Remington brass. 3) Accuracy - a bit of a subjective statement, but I've never had a problem getting my Maximums to group. The taller powder column not only increases velocity, I firmly believe it's easier to tune. It also gives us other powder options like AA1680 and AA5744. I tried documenting some of the Maximum & SuperMag history a few years back. David Bradshaw was instrumental in getting the story straight: www.singleactions.com/TheSuperMags.html Ronnie - I don't see Ruger ever resurrecting the Max. But clearly there's demand for that frame. If you ever get to making them, put me down for 5 or 6 and tell me where to mail the check. -Lee www.singleactions.com"Chasing perfection five shots at a time"
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Post by unclezeb on Oct 10, 2020 19:21:27 GMT -5
Hell, honestly with how precicse machininge can be now adays I do not see any reasons why small firms cannot offer supermag/maximum frames and prefit barrels/cylinders to turn the blackhawk design into something similar to a Remington 700 or savage 110. I love building firearms from oversized parts with hand tools at my work desk/bench from 1911’s, FAL’s, AK’s, AR’s, Remington 700’s, savage 110’s, 10/22’s, why should the blackhawk design be any different. I can guarantee if an open to public frame option came to light I’d buy 4 as off the top of my head I’d build a 25cal wildcat, 375 supermag, 414, and a 500 maximum. Keep the cost of a bare frame with minor fitting down too $300 or a fully cleaned up ready to bolt up frame $400-$500 I’d be all in. Not going to throw the onus of something like this on someone lest we create too much pressure but we all know this is possible. Hell we could all go in a group buy to order the “x” amount of frame needed from pinetree to get it done' find the right CNC machine and we’d all be satisfied. Honestly the frame is the lynch pin in everyones pipe dream.
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cmillard
.375 Atomic
MOLON LABE
Posts: 1,948
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Post by cmillard on Oct 12, 2020 13:03:25 GMT -5
Well, I have been emailing lipseys on this subject. Lipseys would love to see it happen, but at this point it won't happen due to the nature of things going on....lack of ammo and demand for the caliber. If anyone would like to see the email, pm me and I will get you the exact response.
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