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Post by tinkerpearce on Oct 17, 2017 22:42:56 GMT -5
I wonder if the .44 Magnum collet-crimp die could be modified to work for .44 Colt? Very interested to see how this works out for you.
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Post by magnumwheelman on Oct 18, 2017 6:06:27 GMT -5
BRASF0311... we may have trouble getting a much heavier bullet, without going deeply into the case... if you look at the pictures of my loaded 290 grain cartridges the bullet is already pretty long... outside the case mouth... some smart guys were playing with that 480 Achilles, which is what the mold started out as... they used the same bullet / heel proportions as the 22 LR, we've only tweaked the diameters & added a crimp groove so far...
as far as hot rodding... the 22 LR has some hyper velocity loadings, so it's reasonable to expect that the 476 WTH bullet will be also accurate with stepped up velocities... as Steve mentioned earlier though, the only issue with revolvers would be cylinder thickness on the 6 shot cylinders... but 300 grain "Ruger only loads" are easily found in the loading manuals
of course the heel seated 290 grain bullet leaves lots of extra 45 Colt case capacity, for powders other than Trailboss ( a fact I don't really like... it looks like I could triple charge my starting AA #7 loads... I'm hand scaling each one, since I'm currently only loading 10 in each weight of charge, but I normally prefer something that uses up over half the case capacity so that a double charge would be obvious... just for safety )... but for use in a Contender / Encore... & some of that space could be taken up with increased heel mass... I'm just not as smart as some of the guys that fiddled with the original 480 Achilles design, & not sure how changing the heel dimensions will effect how the bullet shoots...
I am still planning on futzing with a PC bullet with no lube grooves, & a couple .001's smaller dimensions to allow for powder coat thickness... I'm wondering if losing the lube grooves, might bump the weight to close to 300 grains or only make up the difference of the smaller diameter, & just maintain that 290 grains???
TINKER... I've not looked at the 44 magnum die, but if it's priced as reasonably as the 45 Colt die, it's certainly worth taking a look at...
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Post by BRASF0311 on Oct 18, 2017 21:04:49 GMT -5
We will continue to hang in there with you and hope for the best. I believe this round has a lot of potential.
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Post by tinkerpearce on Oct 19, 2017 9:34:38 GMT -5
TINKER... I've not looked at the 44 magnum die, but if it's priced as reasonably as the 45 Colt die, it's certainly worth taking a look at... Yeah, it's the same price. WTH, if I look at it and decide it's too much bother/not going to work I've been considering a .44 Magnum as my next purchase anyway, so it won't go to waste.
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Post by magnumwheelman on Oct 19, 2017 13:32:04 GMT -5
I'm at work, so I can't crimp a cartridge for sure... but I did have a 475 bullet here, & it fits through the collet ( which is a very good sign ) TINKER... I think the 44 die could work for you, with some modifications, but it will be more difficult than with our design... on our die, the shell holder pushes on a sleeve that engages the collet... on the Lee dies, the shell holder pushes directly on the collet... so it may be more complicated to crimp a shorter case, with ours, a shorter sleeve fixes the issue, on the Lee die, either a new collet will need to be machined, & or possibly cut off a few threads from the body... would have to look at that further however for the 476 WTH... the 45 Colt brass is left factory length, so it should crimp at the case mouth... the only thing I see that could be an issue, is on our collet there is a sharper contact edge to push the case mouth into the crimp groove... it looks like Lee used a wider edge, so the crimp may not be as positive, without sharpening that edge... I'll try a few when I get home tonight so far, looking like this might be getting easier to do
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Post by magnumwheelman on Oct 19, 2017 14:14:18 GMT -5
stopped by my buddy's to drop off his 45 Colt Collet crimp die to look over... & he threw me for a complete loop... he said... "Mike" ( that's me )... you should pick up a Ruger Redhawk, in 45 Colt, & I'll make you a 475 barrel to fit that... now were talking... 3" barrel 475 caliber 6 shot double action???
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cmh
.401 Bobcat
Posts: 3,745
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Post by cmh on Oct 19, 2017 14:28:32 GMT -5
😁😁😁
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Post by johnk454 on Aug 9, 2019 10:36:49 GMT -5
I know this is an old thread, but thought I would offer some input.
The concept was to design and build a 'new' cartridge that would be relatively simple and easy to make, on a small package (Colt SA clone). It was mostly done for just the fun of it.
The "Achilles" name was not just due to the obvious heel, but also that since it was a cartridge using a heeled bullet, that would lead to its downfall...
The original bullet design was made by Mountain Molds by cheating and extending a GC heel to make a heeled bullet. We would've liked a crimp groove, but obviously that wasn't available. The addition of a crimp groove is a definite improvement.
The mold was aluminum, and dropped at .478" and .455" on the heel using WW + 2% tin. Accurate Molds version is slightly different, in that the lube grooves are in slightly different locations. Jim Taylor did a lot of testing with this original bullet and found it to be somewhat lacking in lubrication at full power loads.
The short .900" case was chosen to dissuade double charges of likely powders. This in conjunction with a target bullet weight of about 300grs, suited the cylinder length of our SA clones. QuickLoad was used for modeling.
My project 480A is a story in itself, since it languished about 15yrs. Back on it now.
Will order a new mold from Tom at Accurate with larger lube grooves next.
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Post by magnumwheelman on Aug 9, 2019 11:36:03 GMT -5
Thanks for the additional info, I really like using the full length 45 Colt cases, as they easily fit in the Ruger Cylinders, & simplify reloading
BTW... my retired tool & die buddy who helped me with this project, would like to sell his completed revolver & all the tooling & reloading dies... if anyone was interested, I could add it to my "selling my collection pieces" & list it on Gun Broker with the seller who is selling my collection ( I'm keeping my 476 WTH for now ) but if anyone was interested in this, to where it would be worth listing, let me know, it could get you into a turn key 476 WTH???
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Fowler
.401 Bobcat
Posts: 3,557
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Post by Fowler on Aug 9, 2019 13:11:23 GMT -5
I know this is an old thread, but thought I would offer some input. The concept was to design and build a 'new' cartridge that would be relatively simple and easy to make, on a small package (Colt SA clone). It was mostly done for just the fun of it. The "Achilles" name was not just due to the obvious heel, but also that since it was a cartridge using a heeled bullet, that would lead to its downfall... The original bullet design was made by Mountain Molds by cheating and extending a GC heel to make a heeled bullet. We would've liked a crimp groove, but obviously that wasn't available. The addition of a crimp groove is a definite improvement. The mold was aluminum, and dropped at .478" and .455" on the heel using WW + 2% tin. Accurate Molds version is slightly different, in that the lube grooves are in slightly different locations. Jim Taylor did a lot of testing with this original bullet and found it to be somewhat lacking in lubrication at full power loads. The short .900" case was chosen to dissuade double charges of likely powders. This in conjunction with a target bullet weight of about 300grs, suited the cylinder length of our SA clones. QuickLoad was used for modeling. My project 480A is a story in itself, since it languished about 15yrs. Back on it now. Will order a new mold from Tom at Accurate with larger lube grooves next. Don't be a stranger around these part John, your depth of knowledge would be welcomed by many here.
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Fowler
.401 Bobcat
Posts: 3,557
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Post by Fowler on Aug 9, 2019 13:15:16 GMT -5
Another thought, while I have not gotten into the powder coat finish game with revolver bullets they sure seem like they might be a fantastic match for this project. Wouldn't have the issues of sticky, greasy bullets to deal with or not enough lube to get through the barrel properly. I mean it is one thing to have a handful that are loaded and take to the range the day after they are loaded working alright. But set them in a truck on a warm summer day for a couple of weeks and go out and the lube might all but disappear.
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Post by johnk454 on Aug 9, 2019 13:50:01 GMT -5
Fowler - thanks for the kind words!
PC does seem like a natural fit in this application, but I have not tried it yet. Have successfully used PC with silencers to mitigate lube and lead fouling, but the bullets were purchased and fouled terribly even at subsonic velocities. One day I will get set up for PC...
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