|
Post by bula on May 27, 2017 7:57:06 GMT -5
Lots of good info and opinions. Am wondering if the OP by now has smoke coming from his ears and will just go buy a Single-Six, LOL ! Ok, so where is Hoover-san hiding ?
|
|
|
Post by CraigC on May 27, 2017 9:13:30 GMT -5
A 275gr is not what I'd call a "light" bullet. It's more comparable to standard weight bullets with the same SD as the 250gr .45Colt and that is perfect for deer sized game. Like I said, it's all about perception. The .480 is perceived as a heavy bullet cartridge while the .454's reputation is based on what Dick did with 260's. Nothing about pushing a 275gr to 1700fps is against the .480's design. Is it where the .480 really shines? No but since folks brought up trajectory and range, the 275gr is fully relevant and the .480 has that flexibility. If you're hunting deer or antelope and would like to extend your effective range to 150yds, which is the better tool, a 425gr at 1150fps or a 275gr at 1700fps?
I usually use a 355gr at 1400fps but I also realize it's a good bit more bullet than is needed for medium game, being comparable to a 300gr .44 or 325gr .45.
|
|
|
Post by Encore64 on May 27, 2017 9:18:48 GMT -5
I really like the "little" Speer 275 grn bullets. Even when pushed by Unique in my Huntington 480 FT Midframe, it's a formidable woods gun.
|
|
edk
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,108
|
Post by edk on May 27, 2017 11:21:06 GMT -5
The .44 special (in the right gun) can be loaded about as hot as a .44 magnum. Remington lengthened the case so that their high-pressure wonder cartridge wouldn't end up in weaker guns like the triple-lock. The .45 Colt case is relatively short and it has a large bore diameter. If one looks at the physical attributes of each case, they sort of lend themselves to the two ways of thinking/loading above. Granted, you can load either any way you choose for your needs, but a big-bore short cased round like the .45 Colt really lends its to "heavy and slow" - so to speak. Again, JMHO.
...all a matter of perspective!
|
|
|
Post by Encore64 on May 27, 2017 11:45:55 GMT -5
My Dad always said, "everybody's crow is the blackest." It took a while, but makes perfect sense.
My answer is always "both." But, I won't waste one breath on 454 vs 480, 44 Mag vs 45 Colt, or Coke or Pepsi.
Very few of these fine cartridges have anything to prove.
|
|
|
Post by whitworth on May 27, 2017 11:57:18 GMT -5
The SAAMI maximum pressures of each cartridge also paints a picture of intent, 48,000 psi for the .480 versus 65,000 psi for the .454......just sayin'.
|
|
|
Post by CraigC on May 27, 2017 12:27:55 GMT -5
Intent often has little bearing on capability and most factory .454 loads are in the 50-55,000psi range anyway. If intent was all that mattered, we'd all be shooting 250's at 900fps out of our .45Colt's, 240's at 700fps out of our .44Spl's and the .454 and .44Mag wouldn't even exist.
The fact remains that the .480 is capable of propelling a 275gr JHP at 1700fps and that is a mighty capable, flat shooting load. While retaining the capability of 425's at 1150fps. Which was the point.
|
|
|
Post by whitworth on May 27, 2017 12:35:34 GMT -5
Intent often has little bearing on capability and most factory .454 loads are in the 50-55,000psi range anyway. If intent was all that mattered, we'd all be shooting 250's at 900fps out of our .45Colt's, 240's at 700fps out of our .44Spl's and the .454 and .44Mag wouldn't even exist. The fact remains that the .480 is capable of propelling a 275gr JHP at 1700fps and that is a mighty capable, flat shooting load. While retaining the capability of 425's at 1150fps. Which was the point. With the advent of better powders, the factory loaded maximums for the .454 have gone down. Note that the velocities are still high. That is the reason you have seen pressures come down more than anything else. Grizzly still loads 'em up around 59-60,000 psi. The .454 has been driven hard and fast since its birth. I'm just saying that if someone wants a big, yet somewhat gentle hammer, they are hard pressed to beat the .480 at that game.
|
|
|
Post by tradmark on May 27, 2017 13:05:24 GMT -5
Intent often has little bearing on capability and most factory .454 loads are in the 50-55,000psi range anyway. If intent was all that mattered, we'd all be shooting 250's at 900fps out of our .45Colt's, 240's at 700fps out of our .44Spl's and the .454 and .44Mag wouldn't even exist. The fact remains that the .480 is capable of propelling a 275gr JHP at 1700fps and that is a mighty capable, flat shooting load. While retaining the capability of 425's at 1150fps. Which was the point. With the advent of better powders, the factory loaded maximums for the .454 have gone down. Note that the velocities are still high. That is the reason you have seen pressures come down more than anything else. Grizzly still loads 'em up around 59-60,000 psi. The .454 has been driven hard and fast since its birth. I'm just saying that if someone wants a big, yet somewhat gentle hammer, they are hard pressed to beat the .480 at that game. Absolutely and couldnt agree more. Thats what i use my 480 for. I can load it to 475L levels by seating the bukket one crimp groove out. I didnt buy it for that. Ruger clearly stated its intended role. Do you have to abide by this, no, you dont. Theres a plethora of 45 cal bullets able to hold up and show what the 454's advantage is when loaded hot. The 475 bore l, not so much. The monometal solids and punch bullets can be run hard and are very effective and i think in time will supplant the heavier hardcasts when chasing dangerous game. I dont get near as good a result with the 480 275 gr barnes at 1600 as i do the 454 240 barnes at 1900. So i dont do that with it. The 275 is a very very effective deer killer at 1350 to 1400 fps or i just load down large hardcast to 1000 to 1100 fps. Craigc, everything about the 454's design says that is intended to run hard. I dont have to but its design clearly speaks to intent. Ruger has spoken to its intent very clearly. 45 colt and 44 special's original intent wasnt as a hunting revolver to begin with. Dick casull and others opened hunters eyes and changed that intent. A good argument can be made that had ross seyfried had good monometal solids or punch bullets he may have never looked larger than 44 mag.
|
|
|
Post by tradmark on May 27, 2017 13:18:08 GMT -5
As to intent i do concede that rugers intentions for it may be hard to acertain despite their own words due to the fact they put a horrible bullet in the original Loading. The 325 xtp is horrible. Ive had them not open at all on deer and had evidence of them coming apart on deer. The 480 shines with monometal solids and hollow points as well as heavy hardcasts Loaded mild that doesnt tax them and their inherent structural limitations.
|
|
|
Post by CraigC on May 27, 2017 13:32:16 GMT -5
This is getting away from us. I'm not saying one is better than the other. I have no emotional investment in either. I have a single revolver chambered in each cartridge and do not choose one over the other. Actually, technically, I got the .454 strictly to scope to use primarily as a longer range deer gun. I'm just saying there's no need to pigeonhole the .480 as a heavy bullet cartridge, as has always been done with the .475. Just like the .45Colt and .44Spl shouldn't be pigeonholed to their original "intent". Sure, there may be better cartridges to run hard & fast but it is what it is and its capability runs deeper than heavy bullets. The data is there for all to see. Since the CONTEXT of my comments was range and trajectory, I see little difference between a 275gr .480 at 1700fps and a 260gr .454 at 1900fps. That's all I was saying.
|
|
|
Post by whitworth on May 27, 2017 13:37:16 GMT -5
This is getting away from us. I'm not saying one is better than the other. I have no emotional investment in either. I have a single revolver chambered in each cartridge and do not choose one over the other. Actually, technically, I got the .454 strictly to scope to use primarily as a longer range deer gun. I'm just saying there's no need to pigeonhole the .480 as a heavy bullet cartridge, as has always been done with the .475. Just like the .45Colt and .44Spl shouldn't be pigeonholed to their original "intent". Sure, there may be better cartridges to run hard & fast but it is what it is and its capability runs deeper than heavy bullets. The data is there for all to see. Since the CONTEXT of my comments was range and trajectory, I see little difference between a 275gr .480 at 1700fps and a 260gr .454 at 1900fps. That's all I was saying. YOU'RE WRONG, DANGIT!
|
|
|
Post by CraigC on May 27, 2017 13:49:30 GMT -5
Wouldn't be the first time, certainly not the last.
|
|
|
Post by tradmark on May 27, 2017 13:53:41 GMT -5
Using 240 454 barnes at 1900 and the 275 barnes at 1700 the 454 drops only 1.1" less at 150 but using your previously held reasoning and using only max load data from published sources, the 480 maxes out at 1515 fps and the 454 at 2006. Then the trajectory difference when that data is used at 150 is about 4" which makes a difference when the target is small deer but at 200 which is entirely reasonable for deer and antelope with a scope revolver the difference is 10".
Is we choose to not use published data i can run that. Ullet faster and have run 260's over 2000fps
|
|
|
Post by 500fksjr on May 27, 2017 13:57:07 GMT -5
buy one of each and load`em up or down...then go with the flow when it comes to a particular day and want you have choices...
|
|