|
Post by 500fksjr on May 26, 2017 6:34:15 GMT -5
The 480 does not have less recoil than the 454. The whole 480 being a pussycat originated in Ruger PR looking to push the round back 15 years ago. They were loading a 325gr XTP to 40Kpsi or so. Load your 400-425 gr LFN to 48Kpsi and have another look-see. I have to respectfully disagree. While I agree the characterization of the .480 delivering a maiden's caresses to the shooter is a false narrative, I don't think it is nearly as abusive. When I performed endurance testing on the .480 Bisley, I was grateful I wasn't performing the same test on the .454. Keep in mind the recoil impulses are distinctly different with the .454 delivering a much sharper jab. +1
|
|
|
Post by bula on May 26, 2017 7:47:59 GMT -5
Like FT LBS of energy, FT LBS of recoil does not tell the whole story. The speed of recoil is the factor here.
|
|
|
Post by bula on May 26, 2017 7:51:37 GMT -5
It would be good to get Doc and Hoover to weigh in on this. We've not heard much from Hoover hear lately, he ok ?
|
|
|
Post by whitworth on May 26, 2017 8:04:56 GMT -5
Like FT LBS of energy, FT LBS of recoil does not tell the whole story. The speed of recoil is the factor here. Most definitely. Also factor in the amount of powder being burned and the Casull wins on this front as well. The Casull's impulse is fast and hard while the .480 tends to produce a heavy push. By no means am I trying to diminish the abusiveness of the .480, but it's not as bad as the .454 by any stretch in my humble opinion. I shot 4,500 .480 rounds in the course of a few weeks, to the tune of 300 - 400 rounds per session (which took about an hour), and I don't think I would have held up nearly as well had I attempted that test with the .454. And frankly, I don't know how well the .454 would have held up under those circumstances as it is a really abusive round to the revolver. There is a reason why the likes of John Linebaugh and Hamilton Bowen don't build .454 SBHs. Again, JMHO.
|
|
dvnv
.30 Stingray
Posts: 123
|
Post by dvnv on May 26, 2017 11:10:19 GMT -5
Range is one of the most oft repeated reasons to justify the noise and recoil of the .454 Casull. While I agree in principle, as a handgun hunter I really don't see this as a game changer in that I will rarely take shots much over 100 yards. Sure the .480 isn't buzzing along at the same speeds as a .454 loaded to spec, but that doesn't mean it won't kill with aplomb at 150 yards. It's somewhat of a false narrative in my humble opinion. I killed a moose with my .500 Linebaugh slinging 500 grain bullets at a whopping 1,200 fps at the muzzle. My first shot was 100 yards and subsequent shots were around 125 yards. Only one bullet failed to exit, but it was nearly exiting as it traveled lengthwise through the moose. As long as you are sighted in for the distance, and/or know your drop at those ranges and can compensate with holdover, all that velocity is a non-issue. Again, JMHO. Range/trajectory matters more as the targets get smaller and the distance less known. Try hitting a coyote at 150 yards, or is that 105 yards?...IMO, easier with a flatter trajectory. Velocity reduces required lead on moving targets, I guess a guy can get used to anything, but it seems like an advantage there as well. I'll agree that the 454's increased range has little advantage when big game hunting, as I too try to keep shots under 100 yards.
|
|
|
Post by CraigC on May 26, 2017 12:25:56 GMT -5
I don't know how much effective range you're really going to gain with the .454 over the .480. Folks tend to think of the .480 in terms of what it does with ~400gr bullets and the .454 what it does with 260's but seem to forget the velocities attainable with 275's and 325's out of the former. A 275gr at nearly 1700fps is a long way from .44Mag/.45Colt territory and on the .454's heels in terms of velocity.
|
|
|
Post by isaactc on May 26, 2017 20:46:18 GMT -5
Yes, that is Exactly what I mean, Thanks Encore. I am going to watch it and hope it doesn't bypass my budget!
|
|
|
Post by Encore64 on May 26, 2017 20:52:13 GMT -5
I live to serve. Good luck...
|
|
|
Post by tradmark on May 26, 2017 20:53:01 GMT -5
I sure do love my 480's if i had to pick one i choose the 454. The 454 has by far better choices in bullets and loads. The 480 in no way compares in tissue destruction with a redlined aframe or barnes load. Not even the same ballpark. Its a great round the ole 480, but bw all the easy 45 colt loads and loading the 454 has and what can be accomplished with a full on load its a no brainer but i do love rolling the ole 480 out with some moderate loads at times
|
|
|
Post by zeus on May 26, 2017 21:05:24 GMT -5
I prefer the 454 most days but it's depending on what I want to use it for. Running lightweight bullets fast in the 480/475 is brutal. I found the 325 at 1600 more snappy and flinch inducing than any of my 1900 fos loads in the 454. I don't see the 475 bore as a tool for running light bullets.
|
|
dmize
.401 Bobcat
Posts: 2,825
|
Post by dmize on May 26, 2017 22:51:17 GMT -5
I shoot my 454's and 480's pretty much full throttle. I really don't know how to compare the recoil. The 454 is the first handgun I owned that would turn the scope in its mounts. Also when the 480 first came out,I remember some idiot writing that it was like a hot loaded 44 Mag which is pure out and out bullshit.
|
|
|
Post by whitworth on May 27, 2017 1:33:55 GMT -5
I shoot my 454's and 480's pretty much full throttle. I really don't know how to compare the recoil. The 454 is the first handgun I owned that would turn the scope in its mounts. Also when the 480 first came out,I remember some idiot writing that it was like a hot loaded 44 Mag which is pure out and out bullshit. That's exactly how it was characterized and it was probably based on the milquetoast loads it was initially offered with, however even those kicked considerably harder than a .44 Mag. I also agree with Zeus in that the .475 bores aren't intended for light bullets.
|
|
|
Post by tradmark on May 27, 2017 5:07:37 GMT -5
I would suggest in an ideal world a 480 bisley and a srh 454. The 480 is the best caliber for 99% of all handgunners but to get the most from it ya really need to be a handloader imho. It can really shine then.
|
|
edk
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,108
|
Post by edk on May 27, 2017 7:07:37 GMT -5
Folks have disagreed with me on this topic before and probably will again.
It might help to point out that during such discussions assumptions are made as to what a particular revolver round "is good for". Now it may well be true that the 454 was conceived with flat shooting qualities in mind and the 475L/480R more so with locomotive-type penetration the goal but is there really anything that locks them into their respective roles? Really aren't they used in those roles largely based upon thinking at the time? What if history were such that the 475 bore was initially loaded with 275-290gr projectiles at full pressure(same sectional density as 240-260gr in the 454)? It would be a relatively flat shooter and per Zeus' testimony would be "brutal". Now fast forward to the present day's locomotive school of thought on revolver rounds courtesy Seyfried, Linebaugh et al. and design a 454 off the old 45 Colt for that purpose. It might be loaded with 350gr LFNs (same sectional density as 390-400gr in the 475L/480R). It would no doubt penetrate like crazy and recoil fierce too (but not sharply).
Now having indulged in that little exercise is anyone really going to insist that the alternate designed 454 must only be loaded heavy and slow while the 475L/480R is only useful light and fast? Of course not! Admittedly that was just an exercise for the purpose of illustration but before we are too quick to discount it consider a parallel: the 44mag and Ruger-only 45 Colt loadings. One could argue the 44mag recoil is sharp in comparison. However Buffalo bore, Garrett (and lots of handloaders) crank the weight up making a penetration machine out of it. Nobody is claiming recoil is reduced but it is less sharp.
The 454 is versatile. Yes, factory loads are what they are but I do not fire them. Medium-to-heavy LFNs and WFNs from Veral's molds at less than full pressure (but well above Ruger territory) is my preference - in other words loaded like a 480! Sure, there is a little less power on tap than a 475 bore but that is understood and accepted. Almost all of the revolver rounds chambered in the single actions discussed on this forum are quite flexible. Want a self defense load for your 357, how about a federal 125gr JHP? Want to take it hunting? Load one of Veral's 180gr WFNs. Who is going to say that can't be done? Do they have the same recoil characteristics? No.
So to the OP what should you buy? Only you can decide. Do you ultimately need the most top end power? Go 480R. Going to take 250yd shots at antelope? Go 454. But for deer, hogs, black bear etc. both will get the job done as there is a lot of overlap between them.
|
|
|
Post by whitworth on May 27, 2017 7:22:29 GMT -5
The .45 Colt (in the right gun) can be loaded about as hot as a .454. Dick Casull lengthen d the case so that his high-pressure wonder cartridge wouldn't end up in weaker guns like the SAA. The .480 case is relatively short and it has a large bore diameter. If one looks at the physical attributes of each case, they sort of lend themselves to the two ways of thinking/loading above. Granted, you can load either any way you choose for your needs, but a big-bore short cased round like the .480 really lends its to "heavy and slow" - so to speak. Again, JMHO.
|
|