COR
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,522
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Post by COR on Aug 20, 2009 14:29:03 GMT -5
CraigC, you clearly have a hard-on for Gary Reeder (maybe even a slight man crush) ;D ....just remember when comparing Gary to other 'smiths is comparing apples and oranges. Volume being the #1 difference, when you send a gun to Gary for a conversion you will have it in 6 months or less, that is his niche and if you compare the number of builds he has done to the number a 1-man shop like Clements or Bowen does you will find a major difference in volume. When you do that amount of work some folks will be upset about some things...I would advise anyone reading this thread to take it all with a grain of salt and make your selection based on your opinion of him today. His guns and cartridges work great and the 41GNR is definitely my favorite revolver round for deer. How many other smiths can even successfully have a forum to promote products where you get answers directly from Gary or his son that does the 1911's? Any? He hasn't been in business for 30yrs because he puts out inferior products. I admire the man personally but who am I? His newer priced "Shooters Package" is just right for you guys that dislike the engraving, check it out, don't trust what I say, but you will be pleased.
BTW Gary himself always says he's no gunsmith and commends men like Bowen who are artists...Gary will build you a gun that shoots straight and is guaranteed for the life of the gun no matter who owns it.
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cubrock
.401 Bobcat
TLA fanatic and all around nice guy....
Posts: 2,841
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Post by cubrock on Aug 20, 2009 14:48:10 GMT -5
I would advise anyone reading this thread to take it all with a grain of salt and make your selection based on your opinion of him today. Agreed. Some like his guns, some don't. Some like him, some don't. Different strokes for different folks. The thing I take exception to is those fans of his who accuse those of us that don't care for him or his work of being thin-skinned, not on board with "progress," or the like. I have very thick skin, but I don't send my hard-earned money to someone whose personality disagrees with me, if I have a choice. In this case, I have a choice. But, as I said in the beginning, I don't blame anyone who chooses to give Reeder business and I don't denigrate them for that choice. I merely ask the same consideration from them, which I, and others like me, don't always get.
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Post by whitworth on Aug 20, 2009 14:49:28 GMT -5
I would advise anyone reading this thread to take it all with a grain of salt and make your selection based on your opinion of him today. Agreed. Some like his guns, some don't. Some like him, some don't. Different strokes for different folks. The thing I take exception to is those fans of his who accuse those of us that don't care for him or his work of being thin-skinned, not on board with "progress," or the like. I have very thick skin, but I don't send my hard-earned money to someone whose personality disagrees with me, if I have a choice. In this case, I have a choice. But, as I said in the beginning, I don't blame anyone who chooses to give Reeder business and I don't denigrate them for that choice. I merely ask the same consideration from them, which I, and others like me, don't always get. Very well said.
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Len
.30 Stingray
Posts: 358
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Post by Len on Aug 20, 2009 15:25:16 GMT -5
510 No offense taken I think this exchange of opinions and experiences is for the good of members of this forum in making decisions as to who they choose to do their work.
On a lot of the threads members have had nothing but praise for other smiths and members should take note of this.
My main point is that Reeder was not honest with me I believe it was due to the fact he had a shelf full of incorrect dies and ton of incorrect brass either way it would have cost him to recognize and correct the problem. He choose to give me a BS answer.
Anyone can make a mistake how they deal with it tells you a lot about that person and or business.
Separate issue, I do now realize that Reeder is more of a production gun builder and his products cannot be held to the same standard as Clemmens, Bowen, Horvath, etc. Had I known this up front I would not have purchased from him I would rather have spent a little more and had a truly custom built gun.
I have a number of custom or modified guns by other smiths that I am very happy with so it is not like I do not have something to compare him to.
I am not looking to argue with other forum members just share my real experiences some one may want to send Reeder this thread and see what he has to say.
Len
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Len
.30 Stingray
Posts: 358
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Post by Len on Aug 21, 2009 6:25:08 GMT -5
510
According to Hornady, Reeder provided them with the case this is not unusual I have done the same for wildcats I designed. They checked their records and the cases he originally supplied was of a different thickness than the cases he had sold me. Hornady told me Reeder must have changed brass manufactures and that the case walls were thinner resulting in the original die inability to properly size the case.
Good luck with your project perhaps this thread will be a wake up call to Reeder.
Len
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Post by AxeHandle on Aug 21, 2009 7:47:43 GMT -5
Lots of good communication here guys.... Hopefully we all have learned stuff that will make us better educated gun traders and customers....
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Post by whitworth on Aug 21, 2009 8:05:27 GMT -5
This thread has legs!
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Post by ruger1280 on Aug 21, 2009 12:08:44 GMT -5
One thing that I do know about Reeder is he absolutely does NOT allow the guys on his forum to trash other custom smiths. If a posting does make it on the page it doesn't last long. He doesn't tolerate such activity from people who post anonymously or behind a handle. I would recommend to Lee to adopt the same policy. If you want to trash gunsmith's that are not on your list of favorites that is fine - be grown up about it and do it in the PM function or thru your own private Emails. There are those of us on this board that are NOT interested in your run ins with custom smiths. Getting only one side of the story, or just the "juicy" parts of the story is misleading and down right dishonest. I could pass along things that have been said about Horton, Clements and Bowen that were not flattering, but what would be the point. I don't believe them any more than some of the garbage I hear about Reeder on this forum.
Let's just say we agree to disagree about Reeder and move on.
Again, I would recommend to Lee to prevent these type of threads from taking on a life of their own, after all it's HIS liability you guys are playing with.
Dave
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Len
.30 Stingray
Posts: 358
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Post by Len on Aug 21, 2009 14:14:25 GMT -5
I think it is time that this thread should come to an end and we can agree to not be in agreement.
I don't think this type of exchange of personal experiences with gunsmiths, gun manufactures, etc is out of line, I find it helpful in making decisions.
Obviously this is up to Lee and if this type of discussion is banned I will respect that decision.
Len
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Post by CraigC on Aug 21, 2009 16:06:10 GMT -5
I think exchanges like these are important, it keeps folks honest and I, for one, would like to know if a certain gunsmith is prone to irrational hissy fits before spending my money. I certainly do not believe these discussions should be censored out. What was that we were saying about sugar coating??? Let us not sugar coat the truth as well. I resent the implication that my posts have been the result of some sort of personal vendetta against Reeder. I have simply shared my personal experiences with the man, no secondhand information and nothing that was not right there for the whole world to see when it all happened. I don't take pleasure in it but I believe it's important to share these things, good and bad. All things being equal, I'd REALLY rather not even talk about stuff like this and it should be obvious from my initial posts that I was reluctant to. Then folks start making excuses for his behavior and that's when I get a little peeved. So I apologize to anyone who thought my posts were uncalled-for but it should be painfully obvious that mine was not an uncommon experience. I don't think it has anything to do with volume. ...how it was his fault the brass he got was a different thickness. Still, seems like it might have been Hornady's problem, but, you never know. No shortage of excuses! The guy bought a custom gun built by Reeder's shop, chambered in Reeder's proprietary cartridge, along with Reeder's brass and dies. Who the hell's fault would it be? It should be entirely justifiable to expect that all that stuff, all born of the same womb, to work in perfect concert. When it was brought to his attention, he should've rectified it. Apparently he had his money and couldn't be bothered. There is absolutely NO excuse for that. That's piss poor customer service no matter how you look at it.
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Len
.30 Stingray
Posts: 358
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Post by Len on Aug 21, 2009 16:27:20 GMT -5
"No shortage of excuses! The guy bought a custom gun built by Reeder's shop, chambered in Reeder's proprietary cartridge, along with Reeder's brass and dies. Who the hell's fault would it be? It should be entirely justifiable to expect that all that stuff, all born of the same womb, to work in perfect concert. When it was brought to his attention, he should've rectified it. Apparently he had his money and couldn't be bothered. There is absolutely NO excuse for that. That's piss poor customer service no matter how you look at it."
Craig,
You are absolutely correct the issue was clearly Reeder's fault. Hornady corrected a problem he caused at their expense.
Len
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Len
.30 Stingray
Posts: 358
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Post by Len on Aug 21, 2009 22:36:19 GMT -5
510 I don't know why you are so hell bent on defending Reeder and Reeder at this point is a liar, again!
Every statement I made in this thread is factual Hornady should have a record of this as well.
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Post by CraigC on Aug 21, 2009 23:56:54 GMT -5
What, are we in high school now? Tattling to the teacher??? It is of no matter. I stand behind everything I've said, whether Gary remembers or not. Though I really wouldn't expect him to remember pissing off potential customers three or four years ago. Like he said, he builds 400 guns a year so why would he remember? There is no conspiracy against Reeder here. Just multiple customers or potential customers that he pissed off relating their experiences.
Now convince me that you contacted Reeder or made your posts in this thread with any intent but to stir up trouble and I will happily eat my hat......without mustard.
I REALLY wish the archives on his message board went back far enough. I'd love for the group to read his little tantrums firsthand.
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Post by CraigC on Aug 22, 2009 0:41:30 GMT -5
I will question what I please and that is usually "everything". Because it seems to me that you are nothing but a troublemaker wishing to stir the pot, no doubt because of our recent "disagreement". Suit yourself, I believe in giving anyone enough rope to hang themselves with. Santilli's post on Reeder's board. Apparently he still thinks he's being picked on by FA "fanboys" as he calls them: disc.yourwebapps.com/discussion.cgi?disc=183178;article=153408;title=Gary%20Reeder%20Custom%20Guns"Hi guys I'm new here. Mr. Reeder has always been cordial and friendly with me, and, I need your help. I'd like you to look at this website:
and have a look at the comments. I would certainly enjoy any positive feedback, or experience you've had with Mr. Reeder, and, if you have time, it would be nice if you all would register, and stop by. I'd like to hear both sides of these stories, and, frankly, we have a little group that sort of dominates, and presents their idea of what the best guns are, and who makes them. It might be nice to see more then one gunsmith, or Freedom Arms, represented.
Thanks Sincerely 510"
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Post by CraigC on Aug 22, 2009 0:57:29 GMT -5
No, not at all but what do you expect from his fansite? I'm sure you'll fit right in with all his true-believers. Actually your math is a really good point to look at. Figure if a guy's shop builds 400 guns a year, you're not getting the same service you will from a one man shop. If a guy builds that many guns, he's awfully liable to get the big head and not worry about pissing off a few, or even a few hundred. That's all well and good....unless you're one of those few. No sir, I don't think for a second that you believe in this argument. You're only hear for the argument itself. A fine example of his cockiness is right there on the front page of his board. Where he all but takes credit for inspiring Ruger's new flat-top .44Spl. Conveniently forgetting all those who built, bought and shot those Old Model .44Specials looooooooooong before he started building them. See, after a while, you actually start believing your own BS. By the way CraigC, I really want to thank you for taking the time to search the net, cross post from other forums my posts. It's so nice to know you actually read what I write, and stalk around posting it. I've been waiting for you to go over there just to stir up trouble. Didn't have to search, knew right where to look. Stalking you, don't flatter yourself. You're the one that took this argument to another board.
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