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Post by coloradoyaler on Apr 17, 2013 13:02:05 GMT -5
Hello
I need a consences. Is the 454 Casull a better killer than the 44mag when it comes to hunting larger game?
Regards Mark
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Post by Boge Quinn on Apr 17, 2013 13:15:18 GMT -5
The 454 is more powerful, but you can only kill something "so" dead.
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Post by hammerdown77 on Apr 17, 2013 13:34:15 GMT -5
This is a question with a lot of answers and opinions.
How about telling us what game you are planning on hunting?
Do you handload? Are you going to stick to jacketed or cast lead bullets? Whether or not you handload will also affect the responses.
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Post by whitworth on Apr 17, 2013 13:47:31 GMT -5
In a word, yes. However, I don't think the full velocity potential of the .454 is necessary, prefering hot .45 Colt levels instead. The higher velocity potential can be useful for longer shots, but I like getting up close and personal, which negates this "advantage."
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Post by coloradoyaler on Apr 17, 2013 14:02:15 GMT -5
Thanks Guys!
Thanks Whit!
I spend time in the alaskan bush and have been carrying my 50 Alaskan. I am questioning the need for carrying a rifle and I want to start handgun hunting. I reload my 44mag with 300gr Horn xtp currently @ 1250fps. I have shot Cast Performance 300gr as well. But will the 454 out do this load hands down out to 100yds enough to warrant me buying 454?
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Post by whitworth on Apr 17, 2013 14:06:08 GMT -5
It makes an undeniably bigger hole -- for the same reason folks like stepping up to the .475s and .50 cals, the step up is from .429 to .452. May not seem like much, but I like stacking the deck in my favor. I load my various .45s and .454s with 335 to 360 grain bullets -- heavier weights than are practical in a .44 Magnum, and they do quite well. However, the .44 will serve you well and has served many folks well for a very long time. Me? I prefer the .45 Colt, but that's just me.
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Post by CraigC on Apr 17, 2013 14:18:10 GMT -5
I don't know, the .44 does pretty well with 330's at 1350fps and 355's at 1250fps. With hardcast bullets, you'll benefit more from the .454's slightly larger diameter than the increase in velocity. The velocity is great when you're zapping deer at 150yds with jacketed bullets but with heavy hardcasts, it really only beats you up more.
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Post by magnumwheelman on Apr 17, 2013 14:35:36 GMT -5
Are you going to use ear protection while handgun hunting the 454 is a much higher pressure load, I find it excessive in most cases, excessively hard on hearing, hard on the gun, etc.... IMO, with big dangerous game, so long as you have sufficient velocity to still stabilize the bullet at the distances you expect to hunt within... the bullets sectional density is most important... they are both very close, but, as far as working with in both cartridges accepted limits, I think the 44 mag actually gets the nod... that said, for a "defensive" rather than "offensive/hunting" revolver, I built a custom double action snubbie in 44 mag many many years ago, & then a couple years ago, bought a Ruger Alaskan in 454 Casull, to replace it for actual woods defense use... as I said, I feel they are very close, but my Alaskan is stainless, my 44 mag is blued, which is the main reason for my change
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Post by Tx Gun Runner on Apr 17, 2013 14:57:21 GMT -5
Something to think about . If you are 100 miles or more from home and for some unknow reason you have NO ammo with you . The 44 mag you can buy anywhere and the 454 or hunting 45 colt with be alot harder to find ................
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Post by whitworth on Apr 17, 2013 15:25:08 GMT -5
I don't know, the .44 does pretty well with 330's at 1350fps and 355's at 1250fps. With hardcast bullets, you'll benefit more from the .454's slightly larger diameter than the increase in velocity. The velocity is great when you're zapping deer at 150yds with jacketed bullets but with heavy hardcasts, it really only beats you up more. Craig, I have done loads of penetration testing with them, and there is a tipping point with every caliber and I think that once you surpass 330 grains, you are walking a fine line. I even tested Beartooth's 405 grain bullets in the .44 and it performed miserably enough to preclude any more testing. I had planned on trying that load on porcine flesh, but it was keyholing at 25 yards and wouldn't penetrate in straight line either. I have found 330 grain bullets that tracked well in media, flesh, and through the air, but I don't think you are really gaining much going significantly north of 300 grains when you have a diameter of .429-inch. I don't see much benefit from exceeding 335 grains in the .45 either. Every caliber has a tipping point (both literally and figuratively). Unfortunately, many of us (myself included) have fallen victim to "More's Law" -- if some is good, more is better. I even tested the absurd 700 grain .500 Smith bullets and that was not only a waste of time, but a waste of powder and lead as well. Now there are exceptions to every rule, but generally speaking, it is easy to go overboard with bullet weight. God knows I've done on more than a few occasions.
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Post by whitworth on Apr 17, 2013 15:25:59 GMT -5
Something to think about . If you are 100 miles or more from home and for some unknow reason you have NO ammo with you . The 44 mag you can buy anywhere and the 454 or hunting 45 colt with be alot harder to find ................ A great point!
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robl
.375 Atomic
These were the good ole days!
Posts: 1,415
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Post by robl on Apr 17, 2013 15:53:35 GMT -5
Best bear gun/caliber article bar none, was written by Phil Shoemaker, a bear guide from Wasilla, AK. Read it. Head it. Personally, when I lived there I carried moderate to heavy .44 mag loads in a MG sometimes a heavy 45 Colt in a SS Vaq both easy to pack on me all day everyday. I had a shopped SBH in 454 but gave it to a friend when I left. He carried heavy 45 Colt hand loads and ended up selling it in favor of his Vaquero in 45 Colt with the same loads easier to carry all day, he said.
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COR
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,522
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Post by COR on Apr 17, 2013 17:30:41 GMT -5
Hey Rob, I didn't dig the issue up but didn't Shoemaker say to use FMJ types bullets in the 357 and 44 (180 and 240gr IIRC) spine or brain only shots only too...That's from memory so I could be wrong.
NO... I DON'T WANT TO HIJACK THIS THREAD AND START A BEAR GUN THREAD.
I was just trying to recall the article without going through handloader volumes.
Sorry for the hi jack Fermin!
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Post by schmidty on Apr 17, 2013 20:12:03 GMT -5
IDK if the OP is contemplating purchase of a firearm chambered for one or the other cartridge...but if he is, I just wanted to bring up that by opting for a revolver chambered in .454, he'd have the luxury of being able to feed it 45 Colt as well. That flexibility, for me at least, would help me to choose the .454 over the .44 magnum. Jmho of course.
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Post by subsonic on Apr 17, 2013 21:46:24 GMT -5
Bigger is better. If I were handgun hunting in Alaska I would choose a .475 Linebaugh. Actually, that's what I hunt with in Missouri, so I guess I would choose that here too! Yes, ammo is hard to get. Don't loose what you brought!
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