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Post by tradmark on Apr 17, 2013 23:02:24 GMT -5
Hhhm. Depends on the bullet. Velocity does play a large role in the size if a wound channel. A huge amount in fact. Open a chest of a person shot with a 9mm and one with a 357. The difference is velocity. Granted something is dead, its dead. The way i see it is if its a hardcast bullet then it just doesnt matter too much. The size of the diff of te wound channel is negligible. The difference is i can get great penetration with a 454 and a barnes expandable or swift a frame and have complete reliability on a bullet that opens up to an inch. Not so with a 44 mag. If i dont feel i need te velocity and i dribble a lil hs6 in the case and i have a touch over A hot 45 colt. To me its the perfect calibet
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jwp475
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,084
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Post by jwp475 on Apr 18, 2013 9:10:22 GMT -5
Hello I need a consences. Is the 454 Casull a better killer than the 44mag when it comes to hunting larger game? Regards Mark In my opinion and experience the 454 is a better option for larger game. My experience with the 454 is with the Cast performance 360 WLFN hard cast at 1400 FPS. At this speed the 454 is more shootable with less chance of a bullet jumping crimp. Also the hard cast is not over worked and gives its best penetration on large game like Bison and Asian buffalo. The 44 certainly can work, but in my experience the 45 caliber slugs are more authoritative
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Post by stevemb on Apr 18, 2013 10:59:38 GMT -5
Where you live, and whats on the menu changes everything. Also, are YOU on the menu. For me, no need for the .454.. YMMV.. stevemb
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Post by maxcactus on Apr 19, 2013 0:21:07 GMT -5
Nyeah, caliber, schmaliber. Which one can you shoot well and handle? If you can man-handle and shoot that .454 like a barn on fire and ammo availability isn't an issue, get it! I don't own anything in .429 caliber, but if I shot one well and didn't like the recoil of a .454 (and I DON'T! My hot .45 Colts are plenty, thank you!) I'd stick with the .44 Mag. Bigger IS better, but only if you can handle it and control it and if it's available to you.
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Post by coloradoyaler on Apr 19, 2013 6:06:47 GMT -5
Thanks everybody! I have enjoyed all of your input!
Another question however, does all 454 casull brass require small rifle primers?
Thanks Again!
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Post by hammerdown77 on Apr 19, 2013 7:00:16 GMT -5
Thanks everybody! I have enjoyed all of your input! Another question however, does all 454 casull brass require small rifle primers? Thanks Again! Yes
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groo
.327 Meteor
I yet live!!!!
Posts: 855
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Post by groo on Apr 19, 2013 10:49:30 GMT -5
Groo here Is the 454 more powerful than the 44mag -YES by a fair margin. Can that power be applied to your target-- maybe, depends on the target and bullet.. Can you apply the power--- I don't know , that is up to you.. SSK [JD Jones] designed heavy cast for hunting - 357/205gr,41/295gr,44/320gr and 45/340gr. These can go through the skulls of big game at handgun ranges,at about 1200fps.[Gust makes different size holes] For a defense gun against Big,Hairy,bittie,scrachy things whatever you can shoot accurately at close range. 7 to 10 yds and can do so with one hand would be my recomendation.
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wfngc
.30 Stingray
Posts: 107
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Post by wfngc on Apr 20, 2013 7:01:01 GMT -5
Hello I need a consences. Is the 454 Casull a better killer than the 44mag when it comes to hunting larger game? Regards Mark I've hunted alot of big game and I think you never can go wrong with too much power. Game animals usually don't pose and raking ,stem to stern, and frontal shots are there to be taken if the cartridge is able to make them work. The 44 mag is a fine cartridge,the 454 Casull is better and if you hand load its a marvelous one. I have taken Water Buff,Eland,Kudu,Elk,Grizzly, Cape Buffalo, and a posse of Hogs with the. 454 . I would choose a heavy loaded .45 colt before the 44 mag because of bullet weight and less recoil with better killing capability if you'r hunting in N. America.
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mark
.30 Stingray
Posts: 207
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Post by mark on Apr 20, 2013 8:22:30 GMT -5
There is a lot of great information here. Great point on hearing protection. Required with the 454 and full power loads. Those that don't know that have never heard that information and won't hear it again. The 454 has a larger diameter bullet and is more powerful than the 44 mag. Do you need that power to take the game clean with one shot? That depends on what you are harvesting. Probably not if it is deer sized. So, then why do I usually hunt deer with a 454 as opposed to my favorite 44 mag? Maybe not a big deal for you, but I don't have to try to judge distance as accurately with my 454. I don't have a favorite tree stand. I move around during the season and sometimes judging the distance of the game is a challenge for me. Just my $.02. Whit: About these below comments on the 405's in 44 mag, you mention every caliber has a tipping point. What sort of velocity are we talking about when the 405 performs miserably? Suppose soemone loads that bullet in a 444 Marlin case and shoots the load out of a BFR or Marlin rifle for that matter? Do you think the bullet would start to perform? Mark I don't know, the .44 does pretty well with 330's at 1350fps and 355's at 1250fps. With hardcast bullets, you'll benefit more from the .454's slightly larger diameter than the increase in velocity. The velocity is great when you're zapping deer at 150yds with jacketed bullets but with heavy hardcasts, it really only beats you up more. Craig, I have done loads of penetration testing with them, and there is a tipping point with every caliber and I think that once you surpass 330 grains, you are walking a fine line. I even tested Beartooth's 405 grain bullets in the .44 and it performed miserably enough to preclude any more testing. I had planned on trying that load on porcine flesh, but it was keyholing at 25 yards and wouldn't penetrate in straight line either. I have found 330 grain bullets that tracked well in media, flesh, and through the air, but I don't think you are really gaining much going significantly north of 300 grains when you have a diameter of .429-inch. I don't see much benefit from exceeding 335 grains in the .45 either. Every caliber has a tipping point (both literally and figuratively). Unfortunately, many of us (myself included) have fallen victim to "More's Law" -- if some is good, more is better. I even tested the absurd 700 grain .500 Smith bullets and that was not only a waste of time, but a waste of powder and lead as well. Now there are exceptions to every rule, but generally speaking, it is easy to go overboard with bullet weight. God knows I've done on more than a few occasions.
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Post by whitworth on Apr 20, 2013 9:33:45 GMT -5
Perhaps, Mark, but with the limited case capacity of the .44 Mag, there's just so much powder you can stuff inside of it. We were getting just under 1,000 fps with 7 1/2-inch barrel. It was designed for the .444 and you know that one isn't velocity/case capacity limited. But the 405 was being touted by some as a good defensive bullet in the .44 Mag, so that is what I was interested in testing. The bullet is just too long and very wrong for the .44 Mag IMO.
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Post by AxeHandle on Apr 20, 2013 9:35:51 GMT -5
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anglia48
.30 Stingray
Mark Van Horn
Posts: 199
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Post by anglia48 on Apr 20, 2013 9:50:03 GMT -5
Flipped through the posts and didn't see anyone pointing to any of John Linebaugh's writings on the subject of 44 and 45. Here is a good link to get you started: www.customsixguns.com/writings/dissolving_the_myth.htm I remember reading that article years ago before I ordered the 475 of yours.(Well one them at least)lol.Good read.
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Post by AxeHandle on Apr 20, 2013 10:01:02 GMT -5
475 Linebaugh Long reference? Now I just know that demands a quick thread hijack!
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Post by whitworth on Apr 20, 2013 10:19:10 GMT -5
Man, that's nice Axe!
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Post by CraigC on Apr 20, 2013 10:21:32 GMT -5
Has anyone tested the 330's and 355's from Beartooth? It seems to me that the sectional density of the 355gr .44 and 395gr .45, being comparable to the 430gr .475, should yield similar results at comparable velocities. Does it not?
IMHO, Linebaugh's article is a bit outdated and too heavily skewed to the .45Colt. It's nearly 30yrs old and a lot has changed.
I also do not see the .45's case capacity being of great advantage at six-shot pressure levels. For across the board the .44 maintains a 100-200fps velocity advantage. At the top end, the .44 slings a 355gr (SD of .274) 200fps faster than the .45 does with a 395gr (SD of .276). Same with the 330gr .44 and 360gr .45 with an SD of .252 - .255. Which tells me that the .44Mag is making better use of its capacity than the .45 at these pressure levels.
Personally, I think a lot of people read the Linebaugh article, dumped the .44 in favor of the .45Colt and never bothered to look back.
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