|
Post by seancass on Apr 16, 2013 9:04:19 GMT -5
Hey guys, I just picked up a new Freedom Arms Model 83 in .454 Casull. Price was just too good to let it slip away! However, paying over $10 to load the gun isn't sustainable around here! So, i shall reload! Does anybody have any handy links on reloading the 454 that they can share? Google searches just brings up threads on how to load it as hot or mild as possible and how to not use lil' gun. I plan to use 2400 and h110, becasue that's what i have! I thought Lee had writen and article on this round, but turns out that was the 5 shot 45's. I've already done some reading, but something from a respected author would be nice, instead of just people talking on a forum. (I mean a Different forum!) I was hoping to use my current 45C dies, but it looks like Mr. Baker recommends dedicated 454 dies, seating the bullet seperate from the crimp. He also recommends full length sizing. Is this the usual method? Do you guys use a standard roll crimp or get the Factory Crimp die(which i've never used)? Thanks for whatever advice you can offer! Edited to add: I'll plan on sticking strait to the load data from manufacturers and books. FA's website loading page gave me a lot of information, but no real loads, since the bullets arn't available. For now, I'll be shooting whatever is available! Prob order some xtp-mags soon, probably also Leadheads. I need to find dies that arn't back ordered or special order! I got this gun for it's accuracy, not so much for the power. That's just a nice bonus! Edited again, here's the gun in question: singleactions.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=gallery&action=display&thread=10501
|
|
|
Post by hammerdown77 on Apr 16, 2013 9:34:34 GMT -5
I would highly recommend getting a set of RCBS dies for the 454. They seem to size the cases down further than my Lee 45 Colt dies, and I have MUCH better neck tension (which is important in the 454, it's a great bullet puller). Lots of data out there, I'd recommend going to the powder manufacturers online reloading data sites. I started with Hodgdon. Are you shooting cast or jacketed? If you are going to really push the 454 into the 50k+ psi range, then you should probably stick with jacketed, or really hard cast bullets. My Model 83 seems to really really like bullets in the 300-335 grain range. Although, I don't think there's a load it doesn't shoot well, it's a spectacular gun. Here's a group I shot last month, using a Leadheads 335 gr. gas checked bullet. Mine also really likes the 300 grain truncated cone style bullet that most commercial casters offer. This one is from Missouri Bullet Co., loaded to the lower crimp groove, on top of 26.5 grains of H110. Certainly not top end, but still cooking out pretty good at 1450-1500 fps. Distance was 25 yards. I tend to stick to H110 or AA9 (which should be really close to 2400). I use around 24 grains of AA9 under that 300 LTC bullet, so you might want to give that a try using 2400. The 270 SAA bullet also shoots pretty well. I believe this group was over 29.5 grains of H110, at 25 yds Another load that shoots really well is 8 grains of Trail Boss under a 300 grain lead bullet. Very nice practice load, and groups tight. Good for letting other people try out the gun without the intimidation of all that muzzle blast and recoil. My Model 83 is the most accurate gun I have. I have to try really hard not to shoot it well.
|
|
gjn
.30 Stingray
Posts: 491
|
Post by gjn on Apr 16, 2013 9:55:48 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by hammerdown77 on Apr 16, 2013 10:04:13 GMT -5
Please note, that FA data on their website is specifically for use with their bullet (which as far as I can tell they don't make anymore). That bullet was harder than a whore's heart. The Hornady XTP MAG bullet is one of the only bullets I'm aware of designed especially for the higher pressure of the 454 Casull in FA guns. I wouldn't necessarily use FA's data with any ol' cast lead bullet....
|
|
Snyd
.375 Atomic
The Last Frontier
Posts: 2,388
|
Post by Snyd on Apr 16, 2013 10:17:43 GMT -5
I would highly recommend getting a set of RCBS dies for the 454. They seem to size the cases down further than my Lee 45 Colt dies, and I have MUCH better neck tension (which is important in the 454, it's a great bullet puller). Interesting. My Lee dies size the case further down and the expanding die doesn't open them up as much as a set of 454 RCBS FA dies I had. 454 is a great boolit puller that's for sure. Especially with 355ers in my 4" Redhawk.
|
|
|
Post by hammerdown77 on Apr 16, 2013 10:26:29 GMT -5
How old are your RCBS dies, Snyd? Mine are new manufacture.
One correction. I do not use the RCBS expander from the set. I use a Dillon powder die on my 550B, which flares but does not expand. This makes neck tension especially good. Think "snake that just swallowed a rat".
|
|
|
Post by seancass on Apr 16, 2013 11:05:14 GMT -5
Thanks for the reply hammerdown77! I appreciate the specifics, like RCBS dies. It's hard to know what's good or what's bad! It seems hard to go wrong with the big names, but i also want to approach this round with caution! And Enthusiasm! If there are any threads where this has already been covered to death, post up links! I used the search function and went back 10 pages looking for any info on 454, but found almost nothing!
|
|
|
Post by hammerdown77 on Apr 16, 2013 11:32:19 GMT -5
Lots of data over on handloads.com, too. And Cast Boolits. And the Ruger Forum. And HERE!
Sometimes I can't figure out how to get the results from the search in this forum, even though I know for certain those threads exists
|
|
Snyd
.375 Atomic
The Last Frontier
Posts: 2,388
|
Post by Snyd on Apr 16, 2013 14:06:59 GMT -5
How old are your RCBS dies, Snyd? Mine are new manufacture. One correction. I do not use the RCBS expander from the set. I use a Dillon powder die on my 550B, which flares but does not expand. This makes neck tension especially good. Think "snake that just swallowed a rat". The RCBS Dies I had were a few years old. They were marked RCBS FA (Freedom Arms). My lee dies are newer. I know what you mean about snake swallowing a rat. Even with new brass, and a good crimp I'm still getting boolit creep in my 4" redhawk with my 355ers if I push it to 1300. I did however get a Redding Profile Crimp die but haven't messed with it much yet. If I stick closer to 12-1250 not so bad.
|
|
Snyd
.375 Atomic
The Last Frontier
Posts: 2,388
|
Post by Snyd on Apr 16, 2013 14:46:32 GMT -5
seancass, I've only been shooting the 454 for a few years but here's where I ended up. I'm shooting a 4" Redhawk that I converted to a 454 and a 454 Levergun.
Plinkin load. 255gr rnfp over 9-10gr Unique or I just shoot my 45 Colt loads. 8-8.5gr same boolit.
I use cci 400's for those loads, no need for mag primer.
I use cci 450's with H110 for my 454 levergun loads since there is no problem with lighting them off and I have a bunch of em. With my 454 Redhawk, in SA no prob with the harder 450's but shooting DA I get light primer strikes. I've worked over the gun but still get one now and again so I've ended up with Fed 205's. They go bang every time shooting DA and light up H110 and Lil'Gun no problem. Should'nt be an issue for you with the FA. I have a LilGun load that shoots great in both the levergun and Redhawk for cold weather reliability. Otherwise I'm shooting H110. Just don't download it, but you probably already know that. I won't get in to the whole 454/LilGun thing.
Some guys have trimmed down 460 brass to get away from the SR primer. Seems like a hassle to me. I do however keep an eye out for some early FA 454 brass. I guess they made some L pocket stuff years ago.
I've never loaded full pressure loads. I'd venture to say my 454 loads are probably 45-50,000psi loads like a stout 5 Shot 45 Colt load. But, I don't want to load 45 Colts that hot since I shoot my Bisley Hunter with the same boolit. I don't want to take a chance on mixing them up.
I have experimented with a heavy 425gr boolit that I casted from an RCBS 405-FN mold. I sized em down from .458 to .452 but that didn't leave much of a crimp groove and I can't keep the suckers in the brass. Pretty long and after 2 or 3 shots they'd lock up the gun. They shot great at 1100fps in the 1/16 twist Ruger and 13-1400 1/20 Levergun. But, I decided to stick with my 355 wfn for the 454.
Happy shooting, those FA's sure are nice!
|
|
|
Post by seancass on Apr 16, 2013 17:19:26 GMT -5
If i get a three die set, do i have to set it up to seat bullets, seat all my loads, then reset it to crimp(and not seat) and then do them all again? So each time i use it, i have to "set" it twice?And then un-set it?
I'd like to get a 4-die set, but i'm having trouble finding one in stock anywhere!
Thanks for the replies, I'm studying them and working on more questions!
|
|
Snyd
.375 Atomic
The Last Frontier
Posts: 2,388
|
Post by Snyd on Apr 16, 2013 17:35:15 GMT -5
You can buy a Lee Factory Crimp die separately or a Redding Profile Crimp die. Then you can seat in one step and crimp in another.
|
|
|
Post by hammerdown77 on Apr 16, 2013 21:43:22 GMT -5
Yep, that's what I did. RCBS 3 die set, and a 45 Colt Lee Factory Crimp Die. Works like a champ.
|
|
|
Post by seancass on Apr 17, 2013 8:18:30 GMT -5
I was too tired to re-read the "factory crimp" section of lee's manual last night, so i'll ask you experts. What's the advantage of the factory crimp over the roll crimp? Why doesn't the set come with the factory crimp in the first place if it's better? And if the factory crimp isn't better, should i roll crimp them, but get the 4th die as a seating-die? (I know this is a little specific, but i hate to lay down cash, only to find out later that i was better off doing it differently from the start!)
|
|
|
Post by paul105 on Apr 17, 2013 9:32:31 GMT -5
Why not try the .45 Colt dies you currently have. I have several sets, and The Lee set is marked .45Colt/.454 C. If they don't work, you can move forward from there.
Originally, .45 Colt dies were set up for the original .454" spec (or larger) .45 Colt bullets (reason for FA's recco?). In fact I have an older die set that even when crimped, you can still turn .452" bullets with your fingers (due to old sizer/expander specs). More recently, .45 Colt dies are designed/constructed for .452" bullets (FA83 .454 uses nominal .452") and my current die sets give excellent neck tension (the key to keeping a bullet in place under recoil) and no bullet movement. I do have a set of RCBS .454 dies and I can't see any difference vs. the current spec .45 Colt dies.
Lee factory crimp dies for Handguns are different than those made for rifles. The handgun version has a carbide insert that sizes the loaded cartridge to minimum specs for easy functioning (semi autos). Some say that the sizing causes problems with cast bullets in that it can reduce their dimensions, causing problems if a larger diameter bullet is desired. Due to the tight dimensions of the FA83, I haven't found this to be a problem. The Lee factory crimp die is available separately and would be your cheapest was to get a dedicated crimp die.
FWIW,
Paul
|
|