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Post by seancass on Apr 29, 2013 16:45:43 GMT -5
I shot some of the above load over the weekend. Pretty accurate, or so it seemed. Plenty of power. Unfortunately, i think it fouled the bore with some copper. I'll think I'll knock these down a peg and try it again. And spend a few hours scrubbing copper!
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Post by seancass on May 28, 2013 13:18:21 GMT -5
Did a little shooting over the weekend, thought i'd give a little recap. It was a casual gathering so, i didn't get much load work done. I did try out some new Cast Performance 265gr gas check bullets, over about 32gr H110. These shot like a dream! A hair low at 25 yards, seemed to hit like a laser at 70 yards. My group looks around 3" off hand at 25 yards, which was as steady as i could hold yesterday. Like i said, it wasn't a good day for bench work.(It was raining pretty hard actually!)
My second bullet was a 360gr True Shot gas checked. I had it over 22.5gr 2400. I was much less pleased with it! It was not hitting accurately. I'll prob drop this load back to 20 or 20.5 and try another round, work my way up from there. I also found some data for 4227 that I'll probably try. I'm a little low on H110, and i don't know if I'm going to find any for a while!
Hopefully I'll post some pictures later. one 360gr bullets hit the steel post of my target stand, showed some impressive penetration! and weight retention.
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groo
.327 Meteor
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Post by groo on May 28, 2013 19:49:41 GMT -5
Groo here I am in the minority in that I do not like heavy bullets in the FA454 for most shooting and hunting,, I have 2 SSK molds a 340gr and a 270gr. The only reason I can find for the 340gr bullet is super big game or hunting trucks. There is so much power on tap that it is like shooting a 500S&W with 700gr bullets. You can use less . PS. the shorter bullets can be slowed down and keep accurity but the longer heaver ones need to run fairly fast so they will spin up and stablize.
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Snyd
.375 Atomic
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Post by Snyd on May 29, 2013 1:05:54 GMT -5
What's the twist rate on the FA 454's?
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groo
.327 Meteor
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Post by groo on May 29, 2013 10:58:16 GMT -5
Groo here I believe 1 turn in 24 inchs.
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Post by seancass on May 29, 2013 16:34:02 GMT -5
Freedom Arms website confirms 1-24.
groo: This guns purpose, while I own it, is punching paper and ringing steel. I care very little about penetration. And I'd just assume keep recoil down. 454 is known for it's snappy recoil, and i was hoping throwing something heavy and slow might tone that down a little. Could be totally wrong!
I read about these bullets in Handloader, and other places, and thought I'd give them a shot. I'm just looking for some good, consistent accuracy. And I'd like to have a little fun doing it!
Would anyone care to chime in on 1-24 twist vs heavy bullets? I don't know enough yet to have a meaningful conversation on this. (but I'm here for the learnings!)
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Post by seancass on May 30, 2013 9:03:02 GMT -5
Didn't i say I'd post some pictures? Here's the target: 265gr Cast Performance, gas check, about 32gr H110. 25yards, off hand. Can't wait to try more from this bullet. On my 360gr bullets, by True Shot, a ring of lub remained on top of the cases. This seems bad, what's going on here? Here's a loaded 360gr with a 9mm for scale: Edited to add: Just noticed this bullit has some lube missing. That's no good!
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Post by hammerdown77 on Jun 2, 2013 10:39:17 GMT -5
I don't think the extra lube around the case mouth is a problem, nor is the little bit of missing lube on that bullet. LeftySRH's 480 case mouths had a lube ring kinda like that from his home cast and lubed boolits, and those loads shot really well.
I have best luck in my FA83 with bullets in the 270 to 335 grain range. A 300 grain lead bullet is what I shoot the most, and gives cloverleaf accuracy if I can let the gun do what it wants to do.
You may need to push those 360s harder to get the accuracy you're looking for, and that kinda defeats your original purpose of having a less snappy load.
If you want less snappy, I'd try to emulate a Ruger only 45 Colt load with a 300-335 grain cast bullet. Or go for a low mid-range Casull load using a 300 grain bullet and some HS-6
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Fowler
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Post by Fowler on Jun 2, 2013 11:09:48 GMT -5
I get that same lube ring on my cases in my FA83 in 475 Linebaugh/480 Ruger, doesnt seem to hurt anything. Ive had it explained why but I didint really understand how to fix it and in the end it just doesnt matter anyways.
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jwp475
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Post by jwp475 on Jun 2, 2013 11:14:04 GMT -5
I get that same lube ring on my cases in my FA83 in 475 Linebaugh/480 Ruger, doesnt seem to hurt anything. Ive had it explained why but I didint really understand how to fix it and in the end it just doesnt matter anyways. +1………………..
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Post by seancass on Jun 3, 2013 8:59:03 GMT -5
Thanks for the replies. I'm glad the lube ring probably isn't a big deal.
When I'm looking at load data, is there any way to translate data from 45C+p to 454? There's a pretty good change in case volume and I'm not sure if i can use strait 45c data. I hate to just guess at a load! I don't have a chronograph, but I've thought about one.
I think i used a top or near top load of 2400 under the 360, might have to switch to H110 to get more velocity and help stabilize.
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groo
.327 Meteor
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Post by groo on Jun 3, 2013 10:44:01 GMT -5
Groo here If you want a sub sonic load , use a full to base Trailboss load. If you want a not so hot load go with a 90% to the base load of AA1680. AA1680 is so slow that even with a full case you will get about 1\2 the pressure of a normal fullpower 454,or about 44mag. Because Fa uses a slower twist, there is less strain on the bullet when doing warp 4, But this causes some problems with long bullets if you want to slow them down. If you get other bullets be sure that they have short noses as the cylinder is short. I have an early 7 1/2 in back when they were marketed as "the gun you can't blow up". The pressures we ran would turn your hair white "er". 200 jackets at over 2000fps . J.D Jones designed the first cast SSK bullet [340gr] to slow down the gun so cast would work at 454 pressures.[1600] The jackets at the time were for 45acp/colt and you could blow the core out and leave the jacket in the barrel. Cast will not do this as it is all one piece and the worst it will do is strip. At the Time there was no reason to download as "That"s what you got it for" We always thought of the FA as a specialty gun,a maximum hunting/long range gun,and the gun is designed for that. Later 454"s [ruger taurus] were designed to shoot 45colt also ans so have a 45colt twist and looser chamber. If you want a 45colt get a blackhawk, if you want to shoot verry heavy cast bullets get a ruger [they have longer cylinders] But if if you enjoy the tightest,best built,strongest factory revolver built,,, you already have it. Just remember that ,like a Cobra Mustang, you got to pay attention how you run it. I have 2 FA's in 454 41"s 44"s and even a 475L . I play with the lighter stuff, but if i want a hunter that will go the distance the 454 comes out...
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Post by seancass on Jun 4, 2013 4:46:15 GMT -5
Groo, thanks for the load ideas! Good loads can be hard to find without a lot of trial and error! I have a 45C (Old) Vaquero and i shoot it about every time I go to the range! Great factory gun! It sees lots light Ruger-only loads. I don't tend to push it too hard, don't need to!
I'm glad hammerdown77 mentioned pushing heavy bullets hard. Now that you say it, and I've thought about it, it makes perfect sence. I'll keep working at it.
I really appreciate all the replies guys!
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Post by ohnomrbillk on Jun 8, 2013 15:38:24 GMT -5
You would be wise to listen to Zeus.
Lots of knowledge with this group, but he may have more wheel time with a 454 than Dick Casull.....
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Post by bradshaw on Jun 8, 2013 16:59:19 GMT -5
Seancass.... seeing as how you are low on Hodgdon 110 (H110 is Hodgdon's handle for Winchester 296----they are one and the same), and seem to have 2400 in supply, and lean towards heavy bullets, know that 2400 cannot equal----let alone win----the velocity game against 296/H110. You will surpass the ACCURACY SWEET SPOT in pursuit of top velocity from 2400. Some bullets resist pressure without deformation better than other others, which early velocity loaders, notably Dick Casull and Lee Jurras, learned decades ago.
Some propellants are more versatile----and forgiving----than others. 296/H110 doesn't cotton to more than a little air space. That said, 296/H110 provides extreme accuracy over a fairly generous rpm range from all "magnum" cartridges. 296/H110 may be loaded to tall pressure, yielding a consistent, forgiving pressure curve, while heaping obturation on a bullet to weak for the environment. An intrinsically accurate bullet so warped cannot fly straight. Yet the pressure curve was smooth.
One may argue, "Why have a .454 Casull to shoot moderate loads?" I'll answer that question with another question: Why pressure brass to embrittlement with one pull of the trigger? Dick Casull's .454 and Bill Ruger's .357 Maximum demonstrated cartridges and revolvers capable of accuracy at pretty extreme pressure. The Casull and Ruger cartridges also demonstrated damn good work is done from them at more modest pressure. The revolvers take it a hell of a lot better than the brass. And, by dropping pressure, many more bullets find efficiency.
I suppose we could start a silhouette game for the heavy bullet/high velocity crowd. Fabricate silhouettes at the shipyard: buffalo, elephant. We'll need a backhoe to reset the targets once those pumpkin balls roll 'em over. Whatever revolver or load comes next, it will find that our manageable, big bore, three pound revolvers cast a very long shadow. David Bradshaw
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