Snyd
.375 Atomic
The Last Frontier
Posts: 2,388
|
Post by Snyd on Apr 17, 2013 10:06:25 GMT -5
I was too tired to re-read the "factory crimp" section of lee's manual last night, so i'll ask you experts. What's the advantage of the factory crimp over the roll crimp? Why doesn't the set come with the factory crimp in the first place if it's better? And if the factory crimp isn't better, should i roll crimp them, but get the 4th die as a seating-die? (I know this is a little specific, but i hate to lay down cash, only to find out later that i was better off doing it differently from the start!) The Factory Crimp die is a roll crimp. It comes with the 4 die set. fsreloading.com/lee-precision-4-die-set-.45-colt-carbide-90967.htmlHere's the "4th die" in the set. The Factory Crimp Die. fsreloading.com/lee-precision-carbide-factory-crimp-die-.45-colt-90865.html
|
|
joej
.30 Stingray
Enter your message here...
Posts: 352
|
Post by joej on Apr 17, 2013 10:42:23 GMT -5
Your current dies will probably work just fine.
Myself, I like Redding dies and for the 45 Colt & 454 I just polished down the expander plug stem until only the bell section touched the case mouth - that will give the maximum case tension to the bullet and still flare the case mouth to accept a cast bullet without shaving lead.
I like the Redding profile crimp die and crimp in a separate operation but I also use a 5-station progressive press, so it doesn't really add any time to the reloading operation. Seating and crimping in one step with a single stage press works just as well for most folks.
One can make reloading as complicated or as simple as one desires, depending upon your monetary resources and time. ;D
|
|
|
Post by AxeHandle on Apr 17, 2013 11:14:38 GMT -5
FWIW I always understood that the 454 and 45 Colt size dies are not interchangeable. The 454 is sized to the minimum end of the 45 spec. Makes for problems with 45 colt size dies on cartridges for stuff like FAs and custom tight chambered 45s. When I bought my first 454 I traded off my 45 Colt die set and bought 454 dies. I only run 454s and tight chambered custom 45 Colts so I'm good to go.
|
|
|
Post by hammerdown77 on Apr 17, 2013 11:51:42 GMT -5
Good point. My FA 83 is so tight, I don't think I could even get a sized case to chamber if I used my 45 Colt dies...
|
|
Snyd
.375 Atomic
The Last Frontier
Posts: 2,388
|
Post by Snyd on Apr 17, 2013 11:56:01 GMT -5
It depends on the dies. Like I mentioned earlier. I had a set of RCBS "FA" marked dies. These are the ones FA had RCBS make or spec and they didn't size the case down as much as my Lee 45 Colt/454 dies. Also, the RCBS expander plug opened the case more and deeper than the Lee dies.
If it were me I'd load up a few rounds and see how they chamber.
|
|
bud
.30 Stingray
Posts: 233
|
Post by bud on Apr 17, 2013 11:59:05 GMT -5
I found out the hard way as well. Finally picked up a set of Redding 454 dies, that I only use to load 454. However I do like the Lee factory crimp die, 'cause if you roll crimp just a tad too much, the round will not chamber. Those FA's are tight !!
|
|
|
Post by 2 Dogs on Apr 17, 2013 21:06:07 GMT -5
The obvious thing is that your 454 comes with a case gauge. Pull your cylinder out of your FA and use it to check every step of your reloading process. If your dies dont resize your brass enough you will know immediately. If your crimp is flaring your case too much you will know that too.
NEVER load for your 454 FA without using the cylinder as a case gauge.
|
|
|
Post by zeus on Apr 17, 2013 21:37:13 GMT -5
This is really simple. Grab some 454 RCBS dies and get to loading. Nothing special. I use Remington 7.5 primers but others don't so pick your poison. FA still has the 260s in stock I think. They don't make them anymore but they still had some. Keep oil on the front ring of cylinder and the ratchet. Will keep it tighter longer. If you load it down which I recommend for everyday shooting, use 454 brass. A 255 cast slug with 10.5-11 grains of 231 behind it is very pleasant and will do about 1150 from a 7.5" gun. Negligible recoil and just silly accurate. The xtp mag is brutal on deer. I used the 300 mag version for years. I shoot pretty much the 260 FA bullet exclusively in my gun. It's amazingly accurate and hits like a hammer so I don't mess with it. Seat and crimp in two steps. I always just use my RCbS dies to crimp. Never tried the lee die. I get a nice pretty flat around crimp and we are good to go. But you will get the fell for it. As Bud said, a bit much and you will have to bump the end of the case with the sizer die again to make it fit Seat them all then come back and crimp them. As Fermin said, use the cylinder to check them before you load them all. It's A very simple gun to load for and I've honestly never found a load it didn't like or shoot well. My gun will shoot groups at 100-150 yards from the bench that will embarrass some rifle shooters if i do my part. They are amazing guns. One of my all time favorites and probably the caliber that I have the most trigger time with over the years and killed the most game with. My most trusted sixgun for hunting. Good luck with it! Keep it clean. You'll notice after a long shooting session that she's hard to turn due to fouling and the tight tolerances. Little different for a ruger
|
|
|
Post by seancass on Apr 18, 2013 4:42:26 GMT -5
Sounds like i need to get some bullets and primers and get to experimenting! My logic was, since i'm ordering online, if i get everything i need all at ocnce, I'm only paying shipping on one box! My last load from midway cost me almost as much in shipping as the parts/brass cost!
I did some measuring last night, before i'd read some of your replies. My unfired .454 ammo measures .4725 along the case, .474 around the bullet where it's bulged. The fired .454 was around .476 along the case. My resized colt brass measured .470-.471. My expander die measured .453. It sounds like i need to polish .001-.002 off my expander for .454?
Or, I'll just get to ordering what i need! RCBS carbide dies, a factory crimp die(I'd like to try it anyway, maybe even on 45C), and all the xtp-mags i can find. I havn't seen a bad word about those bullets in all my readings so far.
Thanks for the advice guys! It's much appreciated when the knowledgeable folks help out the ignorant beginners!
|
|
jwp475
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,084
|
Post by jwp475 on Apr 18, 2013 6:48:49 GMT -5
FWIW I always understood that the 454 and 45 Colt size dies are not interchangeable. The 454 is sized to the minimum end of the 45 spec. Makes for problems with 45 colt size dies on cartridges for stuff like FAs and custom tight chambered 45s. When I bought my first 454 I traded off my 45 Colt die set and bought 454 dies. I only run 454s and tight chambered custom 45 Colts so I'm good to go. I have heard that as well, but I have 45 Colt dies that crimp better than my 454 dies and size the cases just as well
|
|
|
Post by seancass on Apr 19, 2013 10:45:06 GMT -5
I ran out last night and grabbed some dies and CCI 450 primers(I'll keep looking for with 7.5's). Still need the factory crimp die, but atleast i can make some ammo if i can ever find bullets! I also grabbed 40 rounds of ammo for less than $60, a huge saving over my first ammo purchase. It's Hornady xtp-mag, 240gr at 1900fps. I think it's the hottest load I've purchased so far, pretty close to full power. I think when reloading I'll be looking for heavier bullets at more modest velocites, but I'll see how it likes these!
|
|
|
Post by seancass on Apr 20, 2013 7:50:56 GMT -5
I currently only have cci 450 primers. Is it ok to use these with unique and trail boss or should I get non-magnum primers for these loads? I don't have any trail boss yet, but it does look like an interesting powder.
|
|
|
Post by magman on Apr 20, 2013 9:48:38 GMT -5
I never put that much thought into loading for my FA 454. I just use RCBS 454 dies and a Redding profile crimp. Many thousand rounds have been down range and never had a bullet jump crimp. I do know that after about 50 rounds, the cylinder needs to be swabbed out or the cases get hard to put in the cylinder.
|
|
groo
.327 Meteor
I yet live!!!!
Posts: 855
|
Post by groo on Apr 23, 2013 19:02:26 GMT -5
Groo here I have an early Fa 454 [ one of the first with adj sights] My dies came from FA [ pacific 454] and are "tight" Modern 454 guns like Ruger, Taurus, some rifles will also shoot 45 colt. Mine will not even chamber a factory 45 colt round. Bullets should be .451in cast should be also as the pressures will bump up the bullet easy. Ps, a bullet sized at .452 will not chamber in mine either.
|
|
|
Post by seancass on Apr 24, 2013 10:37:16 GMT -5
UPDATE!!!
Last night my box of supplies was waiting for me at my door! Starline brass and 300 gr XTP bullets(NOT XTP MAGS). I couldn't find the mags in stock anywhere and Hornady lists these as good to 1500fps, plenty for some plinking loads! or so i think... Looking at my manual, it list an OAL of 1.745(i think). The bullet has two crimp grooves, neither of which hits this mark! One about .02 shorter, the other about .04 longer. I don't want to go shorter because of pressure, but the longer spot puts the bullet right at the end of the chamger.
The starting load in my Lyman manual was 24.7 gr 2400, so that's what i planned to load. The internet seems to think i could go lighter, down to around 22gr. I'm using new starline brass and CCI450 primers. My concerns/reason for the light load are reduced bullet crimp and less chance of high pressure. As i said, full power is not a big concern, just safe and accurate. And maybe a little power...
I loaded one round long and it worked fine in each chamber on my cylinder. But as i said, the bullet is right there at the end and only a little pull would tie up the gun.
I couldn't find any load data from honady and the info from Alliant was about useless.
What say ye?
|
|