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Post by sixshot on Jun 20, 2017 11:12:09 GMT -5
Mark, many of the commercial casters cast more than one hardness, getting something softer than 20-22 is quite easy if you check their websites. I have never bought a cast bullet but I do look at their offerings. It's those heat treated bullets or water quenched one's that guys do & then use on smaller game like deer, antelope or small hogs that can cause some grief, much better to go a bit on the soft side like 10-11 BHN like wheel weights or wheel weights with some lead added to make the bullet more ductile, those bullets work so much better if the accuracy is still there. For me at least when I get up into the elk size game I go up to 12-14 & rarely beyond 16 BHN for anything, that's just my opinion, others may disagree. If I'm getting accuracy I'm not too concerned about hardness with cast, if accuracy starts to drop off because of velocity I bump it up a tick. Now if I'm target shooting & looking for the "very" best accuracy I might run my bullets a bit more on the hard side but when hunting let's be honest, we need hunting accuracy, not bench rest accuracy. I shoot from field positions & most of the time I kill what I'm shooting at & have done so for a very long time, I'm eating the results not carrying a target around in my wallet. I put out a formula a few years back that I've went by for over 40 years, not rocket science but it's seemed to work quite well although you may have to adjust it one point up or down depending on bullet design/HP/etc. but an awful lot of people have been very satisfied with it.
Dick
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Post by whitworth on Jun 20, 2017 11:49:22 GMT -5
Here's another .45 Colt hog kill -- free ranging North Carolina hog. That's my .454 Bisley loaded with Garrett 365 grain .45 Colt +P loads. I believe it was the first animal to be taken with the new .454 Bisley. And those are some of the hardest yet toughest cast bullets I have ever used. One and done.
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Post by jfs on Jun 20, 2017 15:00:26 GMT -5
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Post by jfs on Jun 20, 2017 15:16:50 GMT -5
James old buddy, you have killed a lot of hogs & I keep begging you to shoot the correct alloy so that you will kill them quicker, cast will do it! Just match the alloy to the speed, that's the key with cast, almost everyone shoots cast that's too hard. Hard cast works against you, not for you, wish you were closer. The key is, shoot a cast bullet as soft as you can & still maintain accuracy, no more! That can be 1300 fps at 10-11 BHN with a powder coated cast. It will have a bigger meplat (nose) to start with than your Partition so it has a little edge already, run it at 1200-1300 fps, shoot that hog through both front shoulders & have ribs for supper. Dick Dick, This the first boar I took and used Winchesters old 240 gr. SWC-GC ammo with the soft lead bullet... Is this how your softer cast bullets would perform??
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Post by zeus on Jun 20, 2017 22:32:00 GMT -5
James used your softer alloy in the 475 Dick. I sent him some of the 385s. He recovered one from one of them that was a twin to the one I found finally.
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Post by sixshot on Jun 21, 2017 1:32:11 GMT -5
James didn't tell me that! Anyway, James, those old factory loads were swaged, not cast I'm pretty sure so being that soft they would have to be gas checked to work at all without leading. They wouldn't be pure lead but close to it. I'm just guessing here but think another 150 fps might have made quite a difference but it also might have leaded your gun. It would be interesting to know the hardness of the remaining bullet you show there if you have a hardness tester. I know some of the very first swaged 357 magnum bullets were loaded very hot & they leaded like crazy, even gas checked, you can only go so far. Whit, that's a nice looking hog & I'm guessing that +P load being both "hard & tough" would probably go through 2 of them, maybe even a third one! You didn't say what speed you were getting but it would be interesting to know how that load would perform on some of those large Bovine's you guys whack down there in Texas. It would take a lot of beef to stop that 365 gr. slug although I'm not sure where you are placing them. You said you had recovered a small truck load of cast bullets from 12+ animals, I'm guessing the above bullet had to have some success, it has to be a dandy, was it even close to some of the all copper or Punch bullets?
Dick
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Post by bradshaw on Jun 21, 2017 10:07:15 GMT -5
“... those old factory [.44 Mag] loads were swaged, not cast... have to be gas checked to work at all without leading. They wouldn't be pure lead but close to it... some of the very first swaged 357 magnum bullets were loaded very hot & they leaded like crazy, even gas checked...”
----Dick Thompson
*****
Correct. Early .357 Mag and .44 Mag Remington and Winchester loads were up-loaded and carried excellent killing power. I, too, believe the swaged bullets were soft by casting standards, yet harder than the pure lead with which we swaged COPPER HALF JACKET bullets (usually SWC and SWC HP). Pure lead leaves no doubt as to effectiveness on deer small and large, with much more punch than a hard cast in the 1,000 fps zone. You give up shoulder penetration for efficient lung deflation.
James’ photo of early swaged gas check .44 Mag 240 SWC shows a great bullet for soft skin game. In my youth I did not find the .44 Mag factory to lead my Super Blackhawk and M-29. As Dick warns, the similar bullet in factory .357 Mag----swaged 158 SWC GC----would lead a barrel pronto. Less than a fifty round box reduced the bore of my old 6-1/2 inch Blackhawk to a thirty caliber silver hole. We dissolved the lead with mercury. (We played with mercury at school, rolling it around in our hands, etc.)
In fact, velocity is the holdback on a swaged gas check or swaged half jacket bullet. Today, POWDER COAT permits a cast bullet to easily exceed the speed of sound without leading.
The value of this thread, with field experience of participants, should serve as a guide for those stepping afield. David Bradshaw
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COR
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,522
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Post by COR on Jun 21, 2017 10:08:35 GMT -5
James used your softer alloy in the 475 Dick. I sent him some of the 385s. He recovered one from one of them that was a twin to the one I found finally. What gun do you have that's chambered in .475 Dick? Sounds like a pretty hot wildcat!
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Post by whitworth on Jun 21, 2017 11:06:41 GMT -5
James used your softer alloy in the 475 Dick. I sent him some of the 385s. He recovered one from one of them that was a twin to the one I found finally. What gun do you have that's chambered in .475 Dick? Sounds like a pretty hot wildcat! Hahaha! Or it might not be, LOL! Now that was funny!
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Post by zeus on Jun 21, 2017 11:57:42 GMT -5
James used your softer alloy in the 475 Dick. I sent him some of the 385s. He recovered one from one of them that was a twin to the one I found finally. What gun do you have that's chambered in .475 Dick? Sounds like a pretty hot wildcat! I KNEW that would happen after I reread that. Haha
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Post by sixshot on Jun 21, 2017 12:28:42 GMT -5
Some where along the way we've gotten our X's mixed up with our O's! I didn't say I had a 475, at least not anymore although I did take one to Africa. I use the 5 shot 480 & I've yet to recover a bullet, not one of any hardness but that doesn't surprise me, these bullets just over power anything I'm ever going to shoot & will do so for 99% of the people on this forum. The other 1 per centers that are lucky enough to shoot the super heavyweight animals I guess will have to invest in something bigger & go with the Punch bullets or one of the other premium bullets mentioned, I have no experience there. My limited experience on hogs is that about any good big bore slug will handle them with ease, my 41 mag ate their lunch. Max, you didn't mention your results with that big 365 gr. slug that was hard & tough, how did it hold up on those big critters, did it fail & go in the small truck load of bullets or did you get some success with it. I'm hoping it showed some promise at least. When Lynn Thompson shot what would amount to probably a railroad car of Buffalo (maybe smaller) in Austrailia with that 44 magnum using 300 gr. XTP's he seemed to be doing quite well & taking out both front shoulders. But maybe there is a big weight difference in animals, I don't know.
Dick
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Post by sheriff on Jun 21, 2017 13:20:12 GMT -5
To answer the OP's original question, yes, your 255 gr cast .45 Colt load will work fine on hogs. I've taken hogs with bow, rifle, and handgun Most were incidental to deer or coyote hunting and were killed with what was in my hands at the time. The smallest weighed in at 88lbs, the largest a tad over 350lbs. All but 2 were feral hogs, one was a 'Russian' and the other a 'Spanish mule-foot'. (The latter were both taken on a bow hunting ranch) If I were specifically going after hogs, I'd use the 270 SAA HP bullet over 22.5 grs 4227. I cast my own, but you ought to be able to find them commercially. This is my most carried/used handgun, a Ruger 5.5" ss Bisley .45 Colt/acp convertible , seen here with a Barranti 'Longhorn Companion and the 270gr SAA HP, powder coated.
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Post by whitworth on Jun 21, 2017 13:28:20 GMT -5
Some where along the way we've gotten our X's mixed up with our O's! I didn't say I had a 475, at least not anymore although I did take one to Africa. I use the 5 shot 480 & I've yet to recover a bullet, not one of any hardness but that doesn't surprise me, these bullets just over power anything I'm ever going to shoot & will do so for 99% of the people on this forum. The other 1 per centers that are lucky enough to shoot the super heavyweight animals I guess will have to invest in something bigger & go with the Punch bullets or one of the other premium bullets mentioned, I have no experience there. My limited experience on hogs is that about any good big bore slug will handle them with ease, my 41 mag ate their lunch. Max, you didn't mention your results with that big 365 gr. slug that was hard & tough, how did it hold up on those big critters, did it fail & go in the small truck load of bullets or did you get some success with it. I'm hoping it showed some promise at least. When Lynn Thompson shot what would amount to probably a railroad car of Buffalo (maybe smaller) in Austrailia with that 44 magnum using 300 gr. XTP's he seemed to be doing quite well & taking out both front shoulders. But maybe there is a big weight difference in animals, I don't know. Dick Dick, I never shot a bovine with that 365, but one of our attendees did and he did not get any exits on a 1,200 Watusi (or thereabouts). I did use the heavier version, at the request of Ashley Emerson (405 grain .45 Colt load), the year before on a very large water buffalo (2,000-lbs). It was a good load in that one exited, but I caught the other two on the offside shoulder. I deliberately targeted the high shoulder area to see how they would fare. They acquitted themselves rather well. The picture below is of some of the recovered cast bullets from last year. There are Beartooths, Cast Performance, Garret, Rimrock, and perhaps a couple others depicted. Tradmark has some more, as do a couple of the other attendees.
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Post by jfs on Jun 21, 2017 17:25:53 GMT -5
I had the same results as David had with the swaged gas checked .44 SWC`s in my 44 mag in that the Remington or Winchester ammo did not lead my barrel... If I remember correctly I had an early blue Redhawk with a mirror shinny bore and a 4x Leupold that shot around a 3"+ 100 yd group with the Winchester load... Picture of the only 240 gr. Winchester load I have left....James’ photo of early swaged gas check .44 Mag 240 SWC shows a great bullet for soft skin game. In my youth I did not find the .44 Mag factory to lead my Super Blackhawk and M-29. The value of this thread, with field experience of participants, should serve as a guide for those stepping afield. David
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Post by jfs on Jun 21, 2017 17:46:58 GMT -5
Dick, Here is a photo of the 475 HP`s you cast that Glenn sent me.... The expanded HP fell on the floor with a clank as the boar was being butchered....Call it the "Holland Tunnel" bullet......
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