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Post by whitworth on Sept 27, 2011 12:00:21 GMT -5
The point I was trying to make is that you will never accidentally double charge a case with H110, but it certainly can happen with some other powders.
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Post by agrizz on Sept 27, 2011 16:48:00 GMT -5
Not picking on anyone or anything in this post however this is a write up about the particular gun and my initial information was a little off.
Regardless this is the information straight from the person that was pulling the trigger on the gun that came apart.
I have removed the last name of the person that owned the gun and the shooter of this gun for their privacy other than that the artical is exact from the shooter.
Switching to a 44 Magnum, Dick next brought out a Ruger New Model Flat Top 50th Edition and I chambered six rounds loaded with 300gr Hornady XTPs with 21.5 gr H110, I shot 5 rounds and one of the bullets jumped the crimp and did not allow the cylinder to turn. I then fired three rounds of this load in his ’94 lever action Winchester.
I asked about how the dragoon trigger guard differed and Bill brought over his beautiful Ruger Super Blackhawk 44 magnum that had a meta-life finish, and magna ported barrel by “Bob” Robert A. McGrew in 1980. I loaded it with six cartridges from Dick and stepped up to the firing line.
I raised the Blackhawk pulled back the hammer and lowered it to bring up the gun to site down range. My finger just touched the trigger and it went off when I had it pointed down. I was thinking the trigger was very light and cursed myself, knowing better to not touch the trigger until I am ready to shoot.
I looked down and half of the cylinder was gone and the back strap was blown away from the top. The barrel was still hanging and one of the cartridges was crushed in the cylinder.
I could not blieve what I was seeing. The barrel seemed undamaged and after looking we never found the other half of the cylinder. Thank God, Dick, Bill, I, or any of the other nearby Shootists were injured. I told Bill I was sorry and asked him if I could do any-thing. He said no and was very relieved no one was hurt.
These are published loads and were shot in a Ruger New Model Blackhawk with no indication of any problem except the jumped bullet. I have been doing some research about detonation, and there are differing opinions. Whether it was because of crimp-
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ing, powder amount, primer selection, powder selection, primer flaming over the powder, or barrel obstruction I do not know. What I do know is that the pressure from the ignited powder rose to a level greater and faster than the cylinder could handle.
What I have learned from this experience is; always keep the barrel pointed down range, never put my finger on the trigger until I am ready to shoot, and keep learning. This will not keep me from enjoying shooting but has given me a lot more respect of what is possible and the need to operate safely at all times.
Rick
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Fowler
.401 Bobcat
Posts: 3,671
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Post by Fowler on Sept 27, 2011 16:48:04 GMT -5
I have shot several 24.0gr under a 300gr cast in my Blackhawks with no pressure signs. I was getting leading so I backed down to 22.0. I haven't checked the speed, but I had no pressure signs in MY relolvers. FWIW, this was the "Ruger Only" Mihec HP. An LBT may sit deeper in the case. I don't think you can get enough H110 into the case to hurt(destroy) a Blackhawk. Well let me see, it seems to me that there was a gent at the Shootist Holiday this past June, at the Whittington Center, that had borrowed a custom ruger super blackhawk and brought it back to the owner in pieces. The top strap was blown at about a 35 degree angle and the upper half of the cylinder disapeared. Load 23 grains of, you gessed it, H110. Just a damed good thing that it was after the main group of Shootists had left the line. Yep, you sure as hell can do it!!!!! But this was in the lowley .44 mag. I have also seen Freedom Arms guns have a few issues with H110. If you need more powder get a bigger gun.......   I was there when that gun went boom. The box said a 300gr bullet and 23.0gr of H110 but there was a lot of bad things going on, borrowed gun, borrowed ammo from someone else, so on and so on. I doubt that load would take that gun apart like that but then we really dont know what happened. It was the first round from that box of reloads so that is the first clue that it may not have been H110, Bullseye maybe? Who knows? The thing with handguns is you can not read a fired case for pressure signs as you can a rifle. By the time you get flattened primers and other tell tale signs you are way over 32K pressure that is commonly accepted as Rugers top shelf levels. Ross Seyfried sent all of his max loads to Hornady for pressure testing before he would put on in print for a magazine, he doesn't want anyone hurt by one of his loads. Sure H110 might not blow a cylinder but then what powder are almost all of the heavy 50K pressure loads created with in the 454? H110. Lees words are very true about H110 getting compressed changes everything in a hurry. If you look around the internet you can find all sorts of suspect information that would justify anything you want. I just wish people didnt come on this and other forum asking experienced people for opinions of what they are thinking about doing even though they have already made up their minds what they are going to do. I would much rather they just told us what they were planning to do and take videos so if things go wrong we can all watch and have popcorn and beer at the ready...  |
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Post by agrizz on Sept 27, 2011 17:15:16 GMT -5
I have been around guns for quite a few days and this is not the first scrap metal that I have seen due to you guessed it H110.
If you wish to have, have wet dreams about, cannot live without more power, value your life and limb, get a bigger gun.....
With all the calibers and guns available there is no need for these heavy test loads leave that to the manufactures you are just asking for problems.
But that is again your choice.
Be careful out there. ;D
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Post by tek4260 on Sept 27, 2011 19:51:28 GMT -5
Anyone is welcome to shoot my firearms with my ammo. Not with their own handloads(except my father  ). It really is amazing that more don't let go from factory ammo. I imagine that they are looking at economy which would be light charges of fast powder where a double or even a triple is possible. |
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Post by dougader on Sept 27, 2011 22:48:28 GMT -5
Years ago I settled on 22.0 gr. of WW-296 sparked by a CCI mag. primer. If I want more power I move up to a Freedom Arms revolver. Carl That's exactly what I did. If I want more power (read distance) I use the SRH 454 Casull. |
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Post by hoover on Sept 28, 2011 19:36:44 GMT -5
Jug Johnson make those reloads ?
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Post by Lee Martin on Sept 29, 2011 7:53:39 GMT -5
While we're talking heavy 45 Colt, one of my favorite 6-shot loads is Penn Bullet's 340 gr SSK over 20.0 grains of H110. For some reason it's extremely accurate in all of my 45 Colts, regardless of twist rate.  -Lee www.singleactions.com |
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Post by whitworth on Sept 29, 2011 8:22:32 GMT -5
That's a nice looking bullet. Have you chronographed that load, Lee?
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Post by Lee Martin on Sept 29, 2011 8:47:20 GMT -5
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Post by whitworth on Sept 29, 2011 8:55:52 GMT -5
Bet it's pleasant to shoot as well.
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Post by Lee Martin on Sept 29, 2011 9:08:44 GMT -5
Ya, it's not bad. 20.0 is definitely max though and puts you right around 30,000 PSI. -Lee www.singleactions.com |
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Post by AxeHandle on Sept 29, 2011 9:58:20 GMT -5
Point to make here is that each one of us is responsible for our hand loads. We've all heard about and some have been intimately involved with catastrophic failures associated with hand loading. Just be careful and when you purposly veer from the well worn path make sure you take all the established safety precautions.. For those of us who say we stay on the worn path when we change a parameter of our proven loads the same precaution apply.. Enjoy life! Be safe! |
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nframe
.240 Incinerator
Posts: 26
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Post by nframe on Sept 29, 2011 15:26:12 GMT -5
I've shot untold number of pounds of 110 & 296 over the years...never blew a gun up...never had a problem with it. Improper loading practices and the like will get you or someone else hurt or worse yet killed. Too bad a nice sixgun was destroyed...great that nobody was hurt.
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Post by whitworth on Sept 29, 2011 15:43:07 GMT -5
I've shot untold number of pounds of 110 & 296 over the years...never blew a gun up...never had a problem with it. Improper loading practices and the like will get you or someone else hurt or worse yet killed. Too bad a nice sixgun was destroyed...great that nobody was hurt. Well said. |
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