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Post by nobearsyet on Jun 1, 2009 11:07:51 GMT -5
As we all know there are things that need to be modified when converting a Ruger to a five shooter. What are they and how do they get modified? Is it something I ca nreasonably do at home? You know without a mill, or all the special tools?
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Post by Lee Martin on Jun 1, 2009 11:55:54 GMT -5
Is it something I ca nreasonably do at home? You know without a mill, or all the special tools? You're joking, right? |
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shorty500
.327 Meteor
too many dirty harry movies created me!
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Post by shorty500 on Jun 1, 2009 16:54:04 GMT -5
i hope he is joking!
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carl
.327 Meteor
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Post by carl on Jun 1, 2009 21:32:11 GMT -5
I think he's mowing the lawn.....  Carl PS Mr. Without Bears, you need to do some serious reading about revolvers. Bowen's book is helpful, as is Kunhausens. Trigonometry ( as opposed to triggernometry ) dictates some of the designs. Metallurgy helps with cylinder design. A good knowledge of ballistics would also be beneficial. This stuff is way out of the homeboy gunsmith league. |
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Post by zeus on Jun 1, 2009 21:42:02 GMT -5
As we all know there are things that need to be modified when converting a Ruger to a five shooter. What are they and how do they get modified? Is it something I ca nreasonably do at home? You know without a mill, or all the special tools? Absolutely! I figure you can stuff one chamber full of playdo and viola! a five shot!! All kidding aside.....no way!! |
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robl
.375 Atomic
These were the good ole days!
Posts: 1,415
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Post by robl on Jun 1, 2009 22:10:59 GMT -5
I've gone the pay-do route myself, don't knock 'till you've tried it...:-)
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Post by maxcactus on Jun 2, 2009 4:08:17 GMT -5
Nobearsyet, somewhere on this forum Lee had carried over an outstanding photo documentary/ thread from the old bulletin board showing in many pictures what was involved in building from scratch and fitting a customer oversized cylinder to single action frame. I believe it was a five shot but can't be certain. It would give an excellent idea of the amount of know-how and precision fitting involved.
When you think about all the things that are going on when a revolver's action is cycled, all the timing and alignment that needs to occurr repeatedly in the exact correct sequence, it's a small wonder that anyone can make a revolving cylinder firearm function precisely at all.
I agree with Carl's statements above. I have both Hamilton Bowen's "The Custom Revolver" and Jerry Kuhnhausen's excellent shop manuals, for both Ruger and Colt revolvers and both give an outstanding appreciation for just how much is actually happening every time we cycle our revolvers. Imagine having to time a cylinder to stop exactly every 60 or 72 degrees. What makes that happen? Cutting the bolt notches into the correct location on the exterior of the cylinder, cutting the chambers and throats in correct relation to those bolt notches, the teeth on the ratchet of the cylinder, the length of the hand/pawl and the distance it travels, etc, etc, etc.
I've worked in a machine shop for a couple years doing light machine work and learning a lot of basics and I can say even if I had the best equipment available, I would NOT attempt it even if I had buckets of spare cash and materials. Besides the potential chance of damaging your gun, there's also the liability issue should you or someone else (Heaven forbid) be injured as a result of your amateur garage smithing.
Please understand that none of this is intended to talk you out of trying your own projects at home. I'm willing to do some light gunsmithing (installing a BM basepin, Bowen rear sights, replacing springs, etc) but other than that, I'll leave it to qualified professionals who are familiar with the pitfalls and are experienced enough to avoid them. Once you read the books mentioned above, you'll be glad you never attempted something as involved as fitting a new cylinder to your revolver.
Best of luck,
Max.
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rigby
.327 Meteor
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Post by rigby on Jun 2, 2009 5:20:29 GMT -5
Just throwing this out there so dont kill me. Does the 5 shot cylinders that Midway sells make this anymore of a reasonable prospect? I know there is still the timing issue and that the quality wont be up to the custom guys.
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Post by Lee Martin on Jun 2, 2009 8:15:27 GMT -5
Those cylinders will work. You still need to modify the gun for timing, and the reaming should be done by a qualified gunsmith (on qualified machines  ) -Lee www.singleactions.com |
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Post by nobearsyet on Jun 2, 2009 11:46:13 GMT -5
I was leaning more in Rigby's direction, fitting the five shot Borchardt or Story cylinders, and was actually approaching this more from a could I actually take care of the timing and whatnot at home rather than pay the 150 an hour that the gunsmiths around there are getting for machine time. My apologies for not specifying, what exactly is involved in timing a sixgun for a five shot, isn't mostly pawl work?
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Aggie01
.375 Atomic
max
Posts: 1,779
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Post by Aggie01 on Jun 2, 2009 15:00:46 GMT -5
Pretty sure the first step to a 5 shot conversion is opening up the frame window.
So technically, the first step is getting the fixtures and a mill to open up the frame window.
Do it by hand, you could make a few sharp corners with your file, and cause stress risers. Or cut it out of square, or too thin. Or you hit your serial number and feel like a dumb **** in prison cause you saved some money by not paying a pro.
standard 5 shot oversize cylinders are about 1.78 in dia.
Even if you had the steadiest hands in the world, you will still be out several hundred buying the first round of precision measuring equipment you need.
Of course, we apparently see things differently - you mentioned in another post you have a set of pin gauges for cylinder throats. I don't need em, I have a checkbook and CAS's address. I send them away and they come back right.
It's one of the glories of capitalism that I can do what I'm good at, and get paid for it, then give that money to someone so they can do what they are good at.
I told my dad the last time he asked me to help haul hay, I will work a weekend at my job, then hire someone to haul the hay while we sit in the shade and drink beer. Everyone will be happier.
Want to a get a laugh out of your gunsmith?
Ask "how much does X cost?"
Then ask "and how much more does it cost if I want to watch?"
Edited for typos.
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Post by Lee Martin on Jun 2, 2009 15:20:18 GMT -5
You don't have to open the frame window.....in fact, I don't on my conversions. The frame window is already large enough to allow cylinders a few thousandths over factory. Perfectly safe for 475 and 500 Linebaughs that are loaded within spec. Now you do need to cut the loading gate recess on these guns to clear the rim. -Lee www.singleactions.com |
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rigby
.327 Meteor
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Post by rigby on Jun 2, 2009 15:26:59 GMT -5
Hum, this got me thinking ,not always a bad thing. What would be the possibilities of a "drop in" 5 shot 45 colt conversion? The 5 shot cylinder would be the same overall dimension as a regular Blackhawk cylinder. Included would be the internals to set the timing. It would not have the same abilities but close.
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Post by Lee Martin on Jun 2, 2009 15:47:03 GMT -5
You definitely don't want to push 50,000 - 60,000 PSI with bad cylinder alignment. That's why I've never been a fan of this "out of the box" cylinder business. You really need to fit and time the thing to the individual gun. That being said, it may work fine. I've never tried any of these pre-cut cylinders so I don't know how well they work. Just remember the old saying though.....spend a little more, get a little more. In the case of heavy 5-shots, spending a little more may net you a lot more. -Lee www.singleactions.com |
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Aggie01
.375 Atomic
max
Posts: 1,779
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Post by Aggie01 on Jun 2, 2009 15:52:49 GMT -5
You don't have to open the frame window.....in fact, I don't on my conversions. The frame window is already large enough to allow cylinders a few thousandths over factory. Perfectly safe for 475 and 500 Linebaughs that are loaded within spec. Now you do need to cut the loading gate recess on these guns to clear the rim. -Lee www.singleactions.comColor me confused - then why do the custom smiths go with opening up frame windows? |
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