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Post by Lee Martin on Jun 2, 2009 15:59:57 GMT -5
Added margin of safety. As Magnum Research has shown with the BFR, you don't have to open the frame window to safely contain 475 Linebaughs and 500 JRHs. -Lee www.singleactions.com |
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shorty500
.327 Meteor
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Post by shorty500 on Jun 2, 2009 16:13:34 GMT -5
Added margin of safety. As Magnum Research has shown with the BFR, you don't have to open the frame window to safely contain 475 Linebaughs and 500 JRHs. -Lee www.singleactions.com Lee is correct on that, they do it for liabilty/safety reasons and sometimes its a great idea to have that extra margin. when i built my 5shot .480Ruger on a Bisley i went oversize to 1.78 diameter also. but if i had it to do again it would be a stainlees gun, 17-4 cylinder and the max diameter i could fit without altering the frame! |
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Post by Lee Martin on Jun 2, 2009 16:22:15 GMT -5
Well put. I also use 17-4 stainless on my 5-shots. At Rockwell 40 - 42, it has outstanding tensile strength. -Lee www.singleactions.com |
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shorty500
.327 Meteor
too many dirty harry movies created me!
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Post by shorty500 on Jun 2, 2009 16:53:19 GMT -5
Ruger sounds alot of trumpets over the new stainless from Carpenter that they HAD to swap over to to do the RSH .454 in a 6shot format but in spite of Ruger & Carpenters mutual claims that its so wonderful , i don't think it can hold a candle to 17-4!
way too many extraction issues out of the high pressure Rugers. Dont buy the theory that the 6shot format causes that, or that it's bad ammo or chamber dimensions. the main issue is that the durn Carpenter steel expands too much with firing pressures in the 50k plus range. then the brass cases expand with doing their job as a gasket. trouble is the bloody steel pops back to it's original size and the cases have essentialy- A PRESS FIT! and i have seen that with multiple factory loads that i know are under the SAAMI limits.
Never seen that effect in 17-4 and in the day i shot some early Freedom Arms data that makes the SAAMI limit look like a pop-gun.
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shorty500
.327 Meteor
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Post by shorty500 on Jun 2, 2009 17:05:23 GMT -5
You definitely don't want to push 50,000 - 60,000 PSI with bad cylinder alignment. That's why I've never been a fan of this "out of the box" cylinder business. You really need to fit and time the thing to the individual gun. That being said, it may work fine. I've never tried any of these pre-cut cylinders so I don't know how well they work. Just remember the old saying though.....spend a little more, get a little more. In the case of heavy 5-shots, spending a little more may net you a lot more. -Lee www.singleactions.comyou know one day i might just drop the $250 that Brownells charges for the Bordchardt cylinders with two goals in mind------ #1_ do a detailed inspection and see how the cylinder could feasably align with proper installation #2_then if all appears to be reasonable quality, meaning better than the factory issue stuff & no reason to single point Re-bore the existing pilot holes, do a line-ream/bore using a frame bushing to guide reamer. |
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rigby
.327 Meteor
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Post by rigby on Jun 2, 2009 17:05:55 GMT -5
What does Ruger use in their regular SS Redhawks? Reason I ask is because I had some 45 Colt +P+ loads made up by Buffalo Bore and they shoot extremely well out of the Redhawk with zero extraction problems, other then the 3/4 case encompassing the ejector star does. They will sometimes get stuck in there but I get that with <20,000 psi loads.
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shorty500
.327 Meteor
too many dirty harry movies created me!
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Post by shorty500 on Jun 2, 2009 17:28:49 GMT -5
What does Ruger use in their regular SS Redhawks? Reason I ask is because I had some 45 Colt +P+ loads made up by Buffalo Bore and they shoot extremely well out of the Redhawk with zero extraction problems, other then the 3/4 case encompassing the ejector star does. They will sometimes get stuck in there but I get that with <20,000 psi loads. Not 100% sure am correct but i remember it being & would guess it being the usual 410 series stainless that most companies use for frames, cylinders, etc. Given proper heattreatment and enough wall thickness around the chambers it can digest some heavy pressures- meaning the .460 & .500 S&W Magnums @ 60-65k psi. but you have to keep in mind those cylinders have an outside wall thckness of .100 in the .500 and even more in the .460. if i remember correctly the Redhawks are around .100 or so in .44&.45 chamberings. |
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shorty500
.327 Meteor
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Post by shorty500 on Jun 2, 2009 17:31:59 GMT -5
Added margin of safety. As Magnum Research has shown with the BFR, you don't have to open the frame window to safely contain 475 Linebaughs and 500 JRHs. -Lee www.singleactions.comwhich are chambered on the standard frame. they do use a larger cylinder on the stretch frames though, my .45-70 & .500 S&W pack the larger 1.780 size |
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shorty500
.327 Meteor
too many dirty harry movies created me!
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Post by shorty500 on Jun 2, 2009 17:40:33 GMT -5
the FA cylinders in .480/.475 are @ .095 on the outside wall and the big .500WE has about .080-.085. these are estimates based on cartridge diameter and the known wall thickness in .454 cylinder. but give a good picture of how stout the 17-4 really is.
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Post by Lee Martin on Jun 3, 2009 8:04:51 GMT -5
Yep, there's a reason why Freedom Arms uses 17-4. Remember, the FA 83 cylinder is a little smaller in diameter than a Blackhawk yet it safely houses 475. -Lee www.singleactions.com |
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Post by nobearsyet on Jun 3, 2009 11:41:14 GMT -5
17-4 seems to be the way to go, however I am wanting to get all of the stuff ready to go before I start sending things off to the smith and was thinking a Borchardt or Story may be a good starting point for a 5 shooter in 454 Casull or something a bit bigger, especially now that it seems that Magnum Research isn't doing the BFR in a 454 anymore (even though it is in their catalog the distributors can't seem to get them, I checked at work) my only option for a 454 single actino seems to be Freedom Arms or a Blackhawk ocnversion
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shorty500
.327 Meteor
too many dirty harry movies created me!
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Post by shorty500 on Jun 3, 2009 16:01:42 GMT -5
BFR availability can flucuate. the Freedom Arms is never a bad choice though.
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Aggie01
.375 Atomic
max
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Post by Aggie01 on Jun 3, 2009 18:07:25 GMT -5
You might convince me to part with my 454 BFR, since I picked up a FA dual cylinder since I got it.
Wouldn't be at a CDNN special price tho, with KRW Bocote grips, and a 5.5" barrel trim and Weigand front sight.
End of this year/early next year, I can also see my 475 BFR going on the auction block when another project reaches fruition.
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Post by nobearsyet on Jun 4, 2009 11:52:04 GMT -5
I would rather do the Ruger conversion anyways, but am still wondering what lockwork modifications need to be done to make it 5 shooter
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Post by Lee Martin on Jun 4, 2009 12:07:49 GMT -5
One piece of advice regarding 454s on Blackhawks....if you don't get the cylinder fit absolutely right, you're going to have a loose gun after a few hundred rounds. Secondly, don't use factory barrel. These conversioins really need slow twist tube on the order of 1:22 or 1:24 (with correctly cut forcing cones and a little free bore to put less pressure on the barrel shank). The minute you start pushing 60,000 PSI, everything better be right if you want the gun to last. -Lee www.singleactions.com |
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