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Post by hypervisor on Jan 13, 2024 19:12:27 GMT -5
For quite some time now, I have wanted to build a “Super Vaquero”. have always loved the unfluted cylinder look of the Super Blackhawk (I have a few) and my idea was to find a spare Super Blackhawk cylinder and put it in an old model 44 mag Vaquero. I had neither of these when I thought of doing this. Over the past couple of years, I have been looking for a spare Super BH cylinder. Finally, about 6 months ago I bought one off GB. I bought it not knowing the length of the gas tube nor the length from the throat to the rear. I just took a chance. When I got it, I measured it with my calipers and compared it to my other Super Blackhawks. Against 3 other cylinders it was slightly longer than all of them. I have researched the probably of cylinder from one gun fitting in another. From what I have read, it is about a 50/50 chance of the cylinder fitting. This cylinder fit in only 1 of my 3 supers. It was too big for the other 2. Just this week, I found and bought a 44 magnum Vaquero (picture below). The Super Cylinder dropped right in! The action is as smooth as the fluted cylinder that came with the gun. It locks up like a bank vault. No play in the rotation and no end shake. The only issue is there is literally no cylinder gap. I cannot get a .002 feeler gage between the front of the cylinder and the barrel. As close as it is, it does not drag. Working the action, there is no scratching nor any wear in the bluing on the front of the cylinder nor on the breach end of the barrel. I am not gunsmith, but my 2 questions are: 1. How can I tell if the timing is “on”? How can I be sure the chambers and the forcing cone are in “acceptable” alignment? 2. What is the downside of having a very minimum barrel cylinder gap? Thanks imgur.com/a/zrJGd2C |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2024 19:51:56 GMT -5
Appropriate sized pin gauge dropped in the muzzle will hang up on cylinder face if alignment is off.
Minimum cylinder gap can cause malfunction if gun gets dirty. Probably have better deviations in fps for same loads though.
Be sure your cylinder is stopped in forward motion by gas ring on cylinder face, not the barrel face.
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Post by messybear on Jan 13, 2024 19:59:06 GMT -5
Cool project. Not really much down side to gap as you can at least remove some off barrel if it’s too tight. If there was little to no end shake, you could probably get by with that tight gap.
If you have no tools, just take a small bright light and shine on breech face of gun while looking down barrel. You can see misalignment that way. If it doesn’t look bad, ( as in more misalignment than say the height of lands) shoot it and see watch ya got. Good luck!
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Post by messybear on Jan 13, 2024 20:01:41 GMT -5
Timing needs to be good enough to carry up the cylinder far enough so locking bolt engages. That’s probably the first thing to check.
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Post by hypervisor on Jan 14, 2024 12:12:33 GMT -5
Be sure your cylinder is stopped in forward motion by gas ring on cylinder face, not the barrel face. This appears to be my problem. While there is no forward and backward motion of the cylinder, due to the cylinder face being flush with the barrel. There is no, zero binding. With the loading gate open the cylinder spins freely. But, there is a gap between that gas ring and the frame. Timing seems to be right on. Using bright light I cannot see any of the cylinder looking down the barrel. What are the ramafications of this? I am not too concerned with it being super accurate. it is 4 5/8 barrel after all. It won't be used for hunting nor self defense. Just to shoot once and a while and enjoy. |
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Post by CraigC on Jan 14, 2024 12:37:33 GMT -5
I like it. Had it not been a Bisley, I was going to suggest the Hunter grip frame. That configuration on a big bore Vaquero is pretty sweet. Crap, now the idea is in my head.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2024 12:49:58 GMT -5
If the face of the cylinder is touching the barrel tenon, its a problem. The gap should be there, not between the gas ring and frame. There is a gas ring stretch tool, also shims that are a major hassle but useful.
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Post by hypervisor on Jan 14, 2024 15:00:09 GMT -5
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Post by hypervisor on Jan 14, 2024 15:14:24 GMT -5
I like it. Had it not been a Bisley, I was going to suggest the Hunter grip frame. That configuration on a big bore Vaquero is pretty sweet. Crap, now the idea is in my head. Not huge fan of the Bisley either, especially the "dainty" hammer. Much perfer the super hammer. But I am going to shoot it along with my Super Blackhawk and see what the recoil feels like. Hoping some day soon Ronnie will do a "Fat Back Super hammer".  |
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Post by RDW on Jan 14, 2024 16:03:03 GMT -5
I like it. Had it not been a Bisley, I was going to suggest the Hunter grip frame. That configuration on a big bore Vaquero is pretty sweet. Crap, now the idea is in my head. Not huge fan of the Bisley either, especially the "dainty" hammer. Much perfer the super hammer. But I am going to shoot it along with my Super Blackhawk and see what the recoil feels like. Hoping some day soon Ronnie will do a "Fat Back Super hammer". Already do.2 versions Standard on the left and fat smack on the right. Here is the old models. New models are cut out, just need to finish shipping this last batch for the preorder guys and then im on the new models. will be available shortly. PS: single six versions as well.  |
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Post by hypervisor on Jan 14, 2024 16:15:42 GMT -5
Exactly what I want Ronnie.
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Post by Ken O'Neill on Jan 15, 2024 8:35:27 GMT -5
I have one, and have used it. It is easy to lengthen the gas ring too much, which then has to be stoned or filed to the correct length. Easy to use. |
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Post by 45dragoon on Jan 15, 2024 11:54:26 GMT -5
Interesting . . .
The open-top platform (Colt type) relies solely on an "endshake" setting since there is no "gas ring/ bushing". My open-top revolvers (all 45C/45acp) are set up with .002"- .0025" endshake with no ill effects. These days they all shoot 45acp pressure ammo ( the 45C is loaded to 21,000 psi as well with 250gr XTP's) with some +p's thrown in. Of course I'm doing this to test the platform, not to make a magnum out of them. I'd like to be able to settle on 21K- 23K psi as a "norm" across the board (obviously the acp is already there!!) but plan to take the Dragoons on up to mid to upper 20's in psi.
So my question is, just how detrimental is it for the barrel to be the limiting factor for the cylinder (endshake only) if there's imperceptible endshake?
Admittedly the forcing cone of my open-top's is definitely thicker ( lots of bearing surface) than the end of a Ruger barrel . . . did I answer my own question?
Mike
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Post by messybear on Jan 15, 2024 12:14:19 GMT -5
Lots of poorly fitted Rugers over the years that bump cylinder into barrel. If they don’t bind what’s to go wrong? They are built like tanks just shoot it
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Post by messybear on Jan 15, 2024 12:17:24 GMT -5
I should point out I owned one like that and just shot the heck out of it. If the load doesn’t lead or foul up the front of cylinder and cause problems turning don’t worry. Try it out.
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