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Post by campfire on Nov 10, 2022 15:47:36 GMT -5
I recently got a couple boxes of HSM 45 Colt 250 gr RNFP. I've bought this in the past to plink with and because they use Starline brass. Well, these 2 boxes are marked on the label "small primer" and the headstamp on the brass is S S. I knew some manufacturers started using small primers for 45ACP years ago but didn't think you could with 45 Colt.
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Post by Encore64 on Nov 10, 2022 15:49:32 GMT -5
No reason you can't. The 454 Casull does...
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Post by campfire on Nov 10, 2022 16:01:49 GMT -5
Interesting, I guess I've just never seen load data using small primers. That being said, I consider myself fairly new to reloading (started probably 10 years ago but just don't have the time to do it all that often). Always learning! Any idea whose headstamp that is?
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Post by starmetal47 on Nov 10, 2022 16:25:26 GMT -5
No reason you can't. The 454 Casull does... I don't own a 454, but doesn't it use small RIFLE primers? We're talking small pistol primers in the 45 Colt, well at least I am. Big difference between the two in the primer flash. |
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Post by lar4570 on Nov 10, 2022 17:04:38 GMT -5
Blasphemy!
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Post by Encore64 on Nov 10, 2022 17:12:53 GMT -5
No reason you can't. The 454 Casull does... I don't own a 454, but doesn't it use small RIFLE primers? We're talking small pistol primers in the 45 Colt, well at least I am. Big difference between the two in the primer flash. Same thing... SR and SP are the same size and seat to the same depth. When I load 454s with Unique, 231, etc I use SP Primers. |
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Post by starmetal47 on Nov 10, 2022 22:42:36 GMT -5
I know the small primers are the same size. I was more or less thinking are the both sufficient to fully light off a full charge of the slower pistol powders. I have some problem with small rifle primers in such cases as the 450 Bushmaster that don't light them off good and I did use magnum small rifle primers.
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Post by magnumwheelman on Nov 10, 2022 23:19:19 GMT -5
Didn’t they screw up 45acp cases with small primers… that was supposed to be less polluting chemically, and for indoor range use… wondering if these were the same???
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Post by starmetal47 on Nov 11, 2022 0:39:39 GMT -5
Didn’t they screw up 45acp cases with small primers… that was supposed to be less polluting chemically, and for indoor range use… wondering if these were the same??? I feel the 45acp case capacity with a bullet seated is small and that the small pistol primer is enough. When the 357mag first came out it had a large pistol primer, correct me if I'm wrong, then they changed it to a small pistol primers. The 357 holds more powder then the 45acp. Makes me wonder why the 10mm has a large pistol primer. Things to think about. |
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Post by bradshaw on Nov 11, 2022 8:00:45 GMT -5
I know the small primers are the same size. I was more or less thinking are the both sufficient to fully light off a full charge of the slower pistol powders. I have some problem with small rifle primers in such cases as the 450 Bushmaster that don't light them off good and I did use magnum small rifle primers. ***** Remington, somewhere around 1980, introduced .308 Winchester brass with small primer pocket.The brass was intended for forming into the shortened series of Remington Bench Rest cases developed by Remington Jim Stekl. Jim Stekl shot his way into the Bench Rest Hall of Fame. Stekl made up a pair of prototype XP-100’s in his 7mm BR, with the intentoion of Remington producing a factory pistol ready to shoot in the IHMSA (International Handgun Metallic Silhouette Association) Unlimited category. Around this time Remington also commercialized the 7mm-08 (.284/.308). In discussing these developments, Stekl warned me of misfires, especially with ball powder, in small primer pocket 7mm-08. In .308, also. The problem was worse in cold weather. I gave Stekl my recommendations to slim his XP-100 7mm BR prototype barrel to allow for a Bo-Mar rear sight and Redfield or Lansing Shooting Supply globe front, and a George Petersen Thumbhole stock (Western Gunstock, Aptos, California). Pro----small primer* Resists pocket expansion under higher pressure. Read “.454 Casull." * Finer accuracy in small case (this is not a blanket declaration). Con----small primer* Poor ignition of certain powders. * Sensitive to case volume. * Sensitivity to cold. After my talks with Jim Stekl , I wouldn’t think of loading a standard .308----let alone a 7-08----with small pocket. Freedom Arms pocket inserts for small primersAround the mid-1980’s, Freedom Arms produced steel inserts to seat small primers in large pockets. Didn’t hear of anyone improving accuracy, thereby, of their silhouette loads in IHMSA competition. David Bradshaw |
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Post by Lee Martin on Nov 11, 2022 11:30:07 GMT -5
David - my dad used a lot of that small primer .308 brass from the early 80's to form BR cases. As noted, the knock was always hampered ignition with ball powders in cold weather. Today, most of the brass used in competition are either Lapua or Norma. They run small primer pockets in .308 Win (Palma), 6.5x47, and of course the 6 PPC, 6mm BR, and .30 BR. I form my .30 Stingrays off of 6.5 Grendel, which also uses a small pocket. I've yet to personally encounter, or heard of others experiencing ignition problems. Then again, we don't shoot a lot of ball powder, such as WW-748. -Lee www.singleactions.com"Chasing perfection five shots at a time" |
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Post by flyingzebra on Nov 11, 2022 11:41:46 GMT -5
Well, these 2 boxes are marked on the label "small primer" If you end up not wanting to deal with the spent brass from this ammunition, I'd like to use it |
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Post by starmetal47 on Nov 11, 2022 11:49:04 GMT -5
Bradshaw and Lee expanded on what I was trying to get across. Thanks guys.
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Post by Encore64 on Nov 11, 2022 12:46:58 GMT -5
Well, these 2 boxes are marked on the label "small primer" If you end up not wanting to deal with the spent brass from this ammunition, I'd like to use it Amen John, me too... As David said, at one time they had 308 Win with small primers. Also, the 30 American which was simply a 30-30 Win with a small primer pocket. Now, Starline has 6.5 Creedmoor with small primer pockets. But, we're getting back to the Handloader vs. Reloader. It's simply matching the primer, cartridge, powder and environment... |
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Post by bradshaw on Nov 11, 2022 13:07:34 GMT -5
Lee.... Like your father, I used Remington .308 BR brass to form. I did not load it full length. Plus, I used a lot of ball powder in various .308 Winchester loads----BL-C1, BL-C2, Accurate 2520, Win 748, including others. And, in 7-08, Win 760/H414 (same), etc. Vast majority of my bottleneck silhouette rounds were loaded with IMR or Hodgdon 4895, the benchmark of medium burn rifle powders. Very accurate 7mm TCU, including with Sierra boattail match bullets, with Accurate 2460, but that is an exception to loading ball in bottleneck handgun cartridges, with 748 in 7mm BR the other notable.
Jim Stekl specifically mentioned Winchester 748 as resistant to small primer ignition in the full length .308 case, also specifically the 7-08. Around this time Stekl also told me of glazing a bench rest barrel with ball powder, absolutely could not remove fouling (or whatever it was)which wrecked bench rest accuracy. Jim named the powder, buy I don’t recall it. That set Jim against ball powder for bench rest. We’ve experienced great accuracy with spheric propellants, but specific experiences inform education----such as the alarming heat you experienced with Hodgdon Lil Gun.
It would cross my grain to deal with small primer .45 Colt at the loading bench. In the .45 ACP, I just swapped small pocket brass to keep it away from the bench.
David Bradshaw
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