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Post by CraigC on Jul 12, 2014 12:30:37 GMT -5
I have no issue with blunt honesty or those who "do not suffer fools" because I obviously suffer from those afflictions myself. What I take issue with is treating everyone like a fool. I'm all for hanging the fools out to dry but everyone should be given the opportunity to prove themselves a fool before getting treated like one. That didn't happen here. The apology is admirable but too late. The damage is done and it's not like this is the first, second or tenth time.
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Post by AxeHandle on Jul 12, 2014 12:47:28 GMT -5
FWIW the descriptions of the Redding "Profile Crimp" and the RCBS Crimp dies for the big bore revolvers reads as a combination of a taper and roll crimp. This give you the constriction of the taper and the rolled edge of the roll crimp.
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Paden
.375 Atomic
Lower Goldstream Creek
Posts: 1,132
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Post by Paden on Jul 12, 2014 13:24:19 GMT -5
If anyone knows of a 500 Linebaugh die which will approximate the crimp produced by the Redding Profile die, please do let me know. Though it can be made to work, the results provided by the RCBS seat/crimp die are not especially impressive.
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paulg
.375 Atomic
Posts: 2,420
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Post by paulg on Jul 12, 2014 14:58:18 GMT -5
I don't know about anywhere else but we here in central Florida have been experiencing a full moon lately. As far as crimping goes Axe should have that locked down, just look at his avatar! Oh wait, crimping not chimping! Never mind.
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Post by AxeHandle on Jul 12, 2014 16:31:02 GMT -5
Dang! Not more name calling! I resemble that remark!
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Post by maxcactus on Jul 13, 2014 3:01:49 GMT -5
And by the way, it's PEDDLING ya bunch of glass breakers!!! 2Dogs, the Grammar Nazi! Who knew?
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Post by bradshaw on Jul 15, 2014 16:10:03 GMT -5
To throw some color on AxeHandle's description of the profile crimp, some years ago I compared profile with roll crimp on jacketed bullets in .44 Mag and .357 Maximum. When the crimping cannelure matched the case length, the roll crimp produced slightly tighter velocity spreads, and generally little or no difference in accuracy. When a rifle bullet without cannelure----or a cannelure in the wrong place for crimping----was loaded in the Maximum case, the profile crimp worked better.
As I didn't have a taper crimp die in these calibers, it wasn't tried. Believe the tapered crimp insufficient to reliably anchor a revolver bullet.
Looking at data from the Oehler 35P chronograph(date July 2000), I see this:
Revolver Freedom Arms Model 1983, .44 Mag. Shilen 10" bbl, 1:16" twist. Bausch & Lomb 2-6x32mm, SSK T-SOB 3-ring mount.
Load Sierra .44 240 JHC 23.3 gr./H110 Federal 155 Gold Match Starline brass COL=1.595"
Press RCBS Piggyback or Pro 2000
Dies Redding Competition Redding roll crimp
Velocity-5 shots 1561 fps average 13 fps extreme spread 4 fps standard deviation
Accuracy-same 5 shots 0.9-inch @ 100 yards
Conditions 80-degrees F raining no wind
Position rest-double sand bag
A photo of the FA Casull revolver with Shilen barrel installed by Jim Stroh introduces the handgun section in Nosler Manual #5, page 497 (and in photo essays posted by Lee Martin).
I have used the Redding Profile Crimp mainly to crimp on the ogive of rifle bullets. David Bradshaw
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jsh
.327 Meteor
Posts: 884
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Post by jsh on Sept 25, 2015 20:37:52 GMT -5
David, I found the Redding profile crimp to what I believe, size down my cast bullets in the case. Groups went wild, so I never revisited it. Jeff
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Paden
.375 Atomic
Lower Goldstream Creek
Posts: 1,132
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Post by Paden on Sept 26, 2015 16:58:22 GMT -5
David, I found the Redding profile crimp to what I believe, size down my cast bullets in the case. Groups went wild, so I never revisited it. Jeff Hmmm...ok, fine. So I had to go check, for my own peace of mind. Or whatever. My bullets are air cooled Lyman #2 (about 15 BHN) as pictured. All measurements taken at point of the two lower driving bands. Forward driving band dimension remained unchanged throughout. Bullet sized to .452 =.4520 Case after sizing with Redding Carbide sizing die = .4700 Case after expanding = .4715 Case with bullet seated = .4750 Case after maximum roll crimp applied with Redding Profile Crimp die = .4750 Bullet after removal by inertia hammer puller = .4520 Case after bullet removed = .4730
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Post by bradshaw on Sept 26, 2015 20:44:06 GMT -5
Jeff.... I agree, my major concern with a profile crimp die is avoid shrinking bullet diameter. In other words, to limit its use to restraining a bullet without distortion with consequent inaccuracy. The taper crimp necessary to feeding and accuracy in the auto pistol applied excessively invites compression distortion. The taper crimp compresses more than the profile crimp. David Bradshaw
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Post by cherokeetracker on Sept 26, 2015 21:06:58 GMT -5
If anyone knows of a 500 Linebaugh die which will approximate the crimp produced by the Redding Profile die, please do let me know. Though it can be made to work, the results provided by the RCBS seat/crimp die are not especially impressive. Besides Redding, I do know that CH4D makes a profile crimp. You can call Dave. I have to agree with the others, Jeff and David. You do have to watch it because if it crimps or cuts into the bullet, then accuracy will suffer. Even if the bullet has a cannelure, this can happen. Charles David uses the better words it compresses and distorts. Thank You
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jsh
.327 Meteor
Posts: 884
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Post by jsh on Sept 27, 2015 7:50:04 GMT -5
Once again my note keeping short hand at the range came back and bit me. Redding profile crimp was applied full length to the 357 maximum, with the RCBS 180 sil. bullet. Chrono readings were good but accuracy was poor.
Charles you are saying that one could "partial" profile crimp so to speak?
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Post by cherokeetracker on Sept 27, 2015 17:08:30 GMT -5
Once again my note keeping short hand at the range came back and bit me. Redding profile crimp was applied full length to the 357 maximum, with the RCBS 180 sil. bullet. Chrono readings were good but accuracy was poor. Charles you are saying that one could "partial" profile crimp so to speak? I am not saying that exactly,,,, But here is what happened with me. I had Dave make me a set of Dies and he made them with the profile crimp. When setting up the die for crimping, it did just Like David Bradshaw said, it distorted and compressed my bullets. I did not shoot the loaded ammo yet. I already know that it is going to affect the accuracy. ( probably increase the pressure too) Fast forward a little I noticed this ( I was looking hard at the first 5 I did ) so I backed of till I could feel that there was no crimp pressure. I adjusted my set screw and proceeded. The bullets and the whole cartridge looks good, but proof will be in the shooting. Let me state this also. Normally we are discussing pistol ammo and the likes. this just so happened to be on a small caliber rifle. The bullets did not have even a cannelure. I did not need the profile crimp in my opinion. But that is what I received from Dave. But I did back off enough that it did give a little crimp but not the compressed, distorted crap, that I first got. In Dave's defense, My wildcat is in an AR rifle. some ammo uses a cannelure and needs a crimp, but in my application a tapered crimp probably would suffice. Charles
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Post by cherokeetracker on Sept 27, 2015 17:22:44 GMT -5
Jeff.... I agree, my major concern with a profile crimp die is avoid shrinking bullet diameter. In other words, to limit its use to restraining a bullet without distortion with consequent inaccuracy. The taper crimp necessary to feeding and accuracy in the auto pistol applied excessively invites compression distortion. The taper crimp compresses more than the profile crimp. David Bradshaw David, My biggest use of a tapered crimp has been with the 45 ACP and I use the Redding competition dies. Maybe I was lucky in setting up the die and I don't think that I have experienced this. ( applied excessively) But if you read my last post,,,,, I received an abrupt shock with my first encounter of the profile crimp. Can you offer a suggestion or is this going to be I would have to see it to better assist you? Next I will call a mechanic to work on my car over the phone. LOL I am laughing at myself and my situation,,, but you do seem to be real good at explaining things where I can understand them. Charles
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jsh
.327 Meteor
Posts: 884
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Post by jsh on Sept 27, 2015 18:50:47 GMT -5
Heck I helped fix a 4 wheeler on the phone this am, lol.
So let me wrap my head around this profile crimp you describe. In a nut shell it is a partial profile crimp? Works kind of like a neck sizing die? Jeff
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