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Post by Encore64 on Dec 18, 2023 19:08:35 GMT -5
To keep from hijacking another member's thread any worse than I have already done, I'm starting what will not be a popular idea.
I'll start by posting what Starline says about The 360 Dan Wesson.
"The .360 DW (Dan Wesson) brass case is a lengthened (1.42") 357 Magnum brass case with a modified web."
Now, I'll assume "Modified Web" means strengthened. I can't imagine modifying anything to make it weaker.
But, I've been exploring options on this in Single Action Revolvers. It comes down to the BFR or FA83 due to cylinder length. It could be done on a Ruger with a new cylinder. It would be more cost effective on the first two Revolvers.
We know and have data on bumping up the 357 Magnum thanks to John Taffin's Exploits with the FA83/353.
All this data would be usable and produce less pressure in 360 Dan Wesson Brass.
I'm not sure if I'll do this or not. I spoke to JRH and he's willing to do the job. It's just a matter of deciding how far to go on a build...
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pleadthe2nd
.327 Meteor
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Posts: 884
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Post by pleadthe2nd on Dec 18, 2023 19:20:08 GMT -5
Sounds like a fun, simple project, I imagine turnaround time will be minimal too
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Post by wheelnut on Dec 18, 2023 20:21:09 GMT -5
I'm currently having a 360 DW built up on a Ruger with a custom cylinder. My idea was the ability to fully utilize the 180gr bullets in a more manageable gun than a maximum. I will be using a Bradshaw style grip frame in brass from RW Grip frames, 6.5-inch barrel.
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Post by Encore64 on Dec 18, 2023 20:27:19 GMT -5
I'm currently having a 360 DW built up on a Ruger with a custom cylinder. My idea was the ability to fully utilize the 180gr bullets in a more manageable gun than a maximum. I will be using a Bradshaw style grip frame in brass from RW Grip frames, 6.5-inch barrel. That sounds like an awesome gun. 5 or 6 Shot? Who's building it? |
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Post by wheelnut on Dec 18, 2023 21:44:41 GMT -5
That sounds like an awesome gun. 5 or 6 Shot? Who's building it? John Powers at Powers Metalworks. 6 shot gun. I don't plan on going to 353 Casull pressures and the idea was to keep recoil relatively mild while having excellent ballistics. It will also have a No. 5 style take down latch and a 357 mag cylinder. It should be done in the next few months and I'll be sure to make a post about it. |
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Post by potatojudge on Dec 18, 2023 22:05:08 GMT -5
Neat idea that I've kicked around also
A few questions a project like this could answer:
1. Loaded to cylinder length with a heavy for caliber bullet, will the usable case capacity be different between the two
2. Will the thicker brass reduce case capacity (has anyone sectioned brass to compare 357 and 360?)
3. Will H110 or 1680 give the best performance in the 1.4 357
I've got a few hundred 360 cases so I hope you get real gains over a Mag
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Post by bigbore5 on Dec 18, 2023 22:07:46 GMT -5
The 360 DW is an interesting cartridge. I've loaded and shot some in my maximum up to 250gr. The rollover point for it is really around 200grs. 173gr 358429 bullets easily make 1600 from a 7-1/2". Recoil is mild.
I am strongly considering adding a second cylinder to my FA 353 when it goes back to get the firing pin upgrade to rechamber into the 360. Then I will have 9mm,38sp,357mag, and the 360. Everything covered from mouse fart to rockets.
But I do want an original Dan Wesson pistol pac 360!
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Post by bigbore5 on Dec 18, 2023 22:20:16 GMT -5
Neat idea that I've kicked around also A few questions a project like this could answer: 1. Loaded to cylinder length with a heavy for caliber bullet, will the usable case capacity be different between the two 2. Will the thicker brass reduce case capacity (has anyone sectioned brass to compare 357 and 360?) 3. Will H110 or 1680 give the best performance in the 1.4 357 I've got a few hundred 360 cases so I hope you get real gains over a Mag The 360 brass from Starline has the same web as their 357max brass, so loaded to the same oal the magnum would hold more powder, but will not live long at higher pressures. I killed enough mag brass when I first got the 353 to know. H110 gives good velocity, but 4227 is the accuracy king. I'll take an accurate shot over a fast one every time, but it's not slow with 4227. #9 is also very accurate and fast. |
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Post by wheelnut on Dec 19, 2023 0:45:04 GMT -5
I've been getting great accuracy from Vihtavouri N110 in 44 mag with much less soot and more consistency than H110. The N110 maintains accuracy over a greater window than H110 and its easier to work up a new load. I haven't been able to do ultimate accuracy testing (shortage of Sierra bullets and my test gun away for a trigger job) but with pedestrian bullets, the accuracy is right there with H110.
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Post by Lee Martin on Dec 19, 2023 12:50:57 GMT -5
I haven't worked with the .360 DW, but like the round a lot. If I build one, I'll run it at .357 Magnum pressure and not do the FA 353 hot-rod route. I made something similar in .41-caliber. My .414 Razorback is a .414 SuperMag cut to 1.40". Same principle as the .360 DW. I load it at .41 Magnum pressures and get 150 - 200 fps more velocity depending on the bullet weight. And the brass holds up great. I have some that's easily gone past 10 reloads of the stiff stuff. -Lee www.singleactions.com"Chasing perfection five shots at a time" |
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Post by Encore64 on Dec 19, 2023 13:04:15 GMT -5
I've often wondered why we don't have a 44 Magnum 1.4". Easily accomplished with a FA83 or BFR with the chambers cut deeper.
I'm not implying that the cartridges should be loaded full throttle, rather that they could be. I thoroughly believe the 360 DW Cases would hold up better.
Honestly, I've never loaded a 454 Casull full throttle. Never really found a reason to...
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Post by Lee Martin on Dec 19, 2023 13:14:18 GMT -5
No, I know you weren't suggesting running it hot. Of course you could, but just like folks found with the 353, you're throwing brass away after a couple of firings. The problem with the .357 Mag is there isn't a lot of head around the primer pocket. Conversely, the .454 Casull has, especially with small rifle primers. The .445 SuperMag cut to 1.40" would be a logical wildcat. I vaguely recall Ronnie Wells telling me he did one years ago. Maybe he'll jump in here. He certainly has worked with the .360 DW and shared some impressive results. -Lee www.singleactions.com"Chasing perfection five shots at a time" |
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Post by Encore64 on Dec 19, 2023 13:24:34 GMT -5
Ronnie and I have discussed 360 DW exploits in length. Hopefully he'll weigh in.
I've even considered a TC Contender Carbine in 360 DW. Couldn't do anything my 357 Maximum doesn't cover. But, would sure be more efficient with modern powders like Power Pistol, Longshot, etc.
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Post by potatojudge on Dec 19, 2023 14:57:22 GMT -5
Ronnie and I have discussed 360 DW exploits in length. Hopefully he'll weigh in. Same, and IIRC he says you need a barrel length long enough to realize gains. I think there's a real place for the 360 in standard length frames, and I'd love to know what configuration takes best advantage of that. I have a lightweight FA97 with a 10 inch barrel that I really wish could be made into a 360 but the cylinder length isn't there. A 357 B&D would be the hot rod of the FA97 world and I suppose is just a new cylinder (and altered timing for going to 5 shot) away. |
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Post by bradshaw on Dec 19, 2023 15:28:27 GMT -5
First .357 Maximum case was 1.490”. First shooting with Remington experimental ammo lead to Bill Ruger and Bill, Jr., making seven stretched frame SRM Blackhawk prototypes chambered for 1.605” brass. All of my early handholds started with the 1.490” case, some of it trimmed to various shorter lengths.
Ronnie Wells knows a lot about the .360 Dan Wesson and its 1.4” case. Winchester 296 (also labeled by Hodgdon as H110), produces velocity with accuracy from the 1.4” case. Whereas, 296/H110 produces velocity without the accuracy in the 1.6” case. IMR 4227 and Hodgdon 4227----I could not tell a difference in championship competition and consider the two utterly interchangeable, if not the same----furnish drill-hole accuracy the 1.6” case.
Winchester 680, now known as, or replaced by, Accurate 1680, delivers accuracy from the 1.6” case. Ronnie has tried it in 1.4” brass, while I have not.
A key to performance from a long case is to contain as much combustion as possible in the chamber and immediately in front of the chamber. Which means, the longer your pressure column and the higher the pressure, the tighter you want the specification package of your revolver.
The 1899 .38 S&W Special, followed by the 1935 .357 S&W Magnum, followed by the 1981 .357 Remington Maximum, proceed from the same straight chamber. The .360 Dan Wesson the same parallel wall configuration.
David Bradshaw
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