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Post by Encore64 on Dec 19, 2023 18:15:36 GMT -5
I believe there is a useful niche for these cartridges with the absence of Maximum Length Revolvers these days. I have no false hopes that we'll see more Maximums.
These can be built on a number of revolvers, both Single and Double Action.
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Post by Quick Draw McGraw on Dec 19, 2023 19:32:00 GMT -5
I've often wondered why we don't have a 44 Magnum 1.4". Easily accomplished with a FA83 or BFR with the chambers cut deeper. I'm not implying that the cartridges should be loaded full throttle, rather that they could be. I thoroughly believe the 360 DW Cases would hold up better. Honestly, I've never loaded a 454 Casull full throttle. Never really found a reason to... Aria Ballistic Engineering has something like this called the .440 Northwest Express. .44 Magnum with a 1.440" case. It's almost as potent as the .445 SuperMag and they'll convert revolvers for it.
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Post by Encore64 on Dec 19, 2023 19:34:26 GMT -5
Interesting. We should really explore these...
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Post by Quick Draw McGraw on Dec 19, 2023 20:03:31 GMT -5
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Post by wheelnut on Dec 19, 2023 23:41:54 GMT -5
I've been looking at that for the new Anaconda as it has a 1.909 length cylinder that I can't fill with 44 mag.
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Post by RDW on Dec 21, 2023 18:25:13 GMT -5
Sorry im late to the party guys. Been going Bat doo doo on hammers here this month and just took a break to check in and found this thread. So yes, I have been squeezin and stretchin and cramming crazy concepts in to brass for some 4 and a half decades now. Always looking for the bigger better deal and there have been a lot of stretched combos made by many a good gunsmith or even serious tinkerers now for a long time. Most of us try stuff that we heard thru the grapevine and do our own versions of experimentation. Alot of it depends on your resources which i have never been limited on because of my profession, ( Machine tool engineer and Cnc Tech). In The eighties i had a lot of time to play, when all of Baker oil tools machinery was running. I would speculate that when certain personallities that i beleive had an idea about a cartridge had not quite pulled the trigger on it, and when they found out someone else was doing it, They got busy either on there own version or just ran there mouth about it. Perfect example Elgin Gates versus Ruger. Who actually came up with the concept? We have all heard the stories. I do know one thing. I learned to weld with a stick machine in the 60s. A tig or Tungsten Inert Gas high freak in the 70s. and i can weld gumwrappers together. So can Alan Harton. But i do know the likelyhood of a man welding 357 mag cases together to add length is highly un likely. Fact of the matter there are some great ideas out there and i beleive we all know the story with the Dan Wesson 360. I know of 6 others who like myself shortened 357 Max cases to various length (because we can all make a longer cylinder and fit them to standard frame) and made some serious improvements. I gained a reputation with a certain gunshop in the 80s for being kind of a nut bag with revolvers. It is Called Carters country. They are a great Firearms retail company with 4 stores locally in the Houston area. I brought in one of my creations 30 some odd years ago and showed the guys, who where very impressed with the performance gains. Several of them old Silloutte competitors and new guys like Elgin and David bradshaw because they were always chasing them. Hahaha. It was a 357 max case cut down to 1.500 and worked perfectly in a standard Blackhawk six shooter. That was my first one that i showed off so that would be in the mid to late eighties. Shortly there after we received at carters country my very first 445 supermag. They were a Dan wesson dealer and i had been waiting for six months or so for it. Same thing, over the next few months i went to playing. They had a stocking and inventory miss hap at carters country and ended up with a thousand ihmsa cases for 445 and i bought it all at a discounted price. One day i came in with something else and a gentleman there said what kind of 44 RONNIE STUPID did you bring in to day. It just so happened that i had just shortend a 445 case to 1.450 and we just named it 44 Ronnie Stupid. I thought it was funny. I am actually building one for Tank Hoover. He got to shoot a couple that i brought to the shootist holiday this year and fell in love. Its a handfull. Personally i have found that once you get over an inch and a half, ball powders like H110 And W296 get flaky. Add a grain and it slows down, add another and it speeds back up to where it was 2 grains ago. A 1.6 case just loves 5744 and 1680. But a 1.4 to 1.5 works well with blue dot, 2400 , 4227 and H110/W296 which by the way are being load out of the same container these days. By the time i got my hands on a 414 i realized that my 357 RS, was 1.5. My 44 RS was 1.450 so i just chopped the 414 case to 1.475. Right in the middle. Its all about the length of the bullet and i have always been a fan of XTPs. The smaller the caliber , the shorter the bullet in front of the crimp. So you can stretch the case a smidge. I beleive i have posted before about my time a t Smith and wesson and that i got my hands on a suit case full of spent corbone cases for the 500 SW well before its release. The only bullets i had available for it in. Point Five , not .510 were the speer 50 Action express 325s. So i took a .375 collet for one of my collet lates and sunk a .5 endmill in about .200 thousandths and made me a bullet grabber. I used something similar to a Tire patch roller that we knurl with on a lathe to put a Crimp groove in and shortened them to, Ill let you guess!!!!!!!! Yes 1.425, hahaha worked great and the 500 Ronnie Stupid was born. Some water hardening material and some homemade reamers took care of the loading die problem. It worked great. About 2010 or so one of my buddys found a Man making a 1.4 length conversion and he has done very well with it. Its a great round. Yall all Know him. He is a top shelf Gunsmith and a real craftsman. John Linebaugh told me that the 500 Linebaugh was not his idea in the beggining and that a couple of brothers had told him about it but we had never layed eyes on the actuall gun.There are plenty of men out there who have contemplated an idea and talked about it but never took it to the next level. John And Jack did and have done it well. Who cares what its called. I have no Ego to bruise. I saw a knecked cartridge , ( wild cat) back in the 80s that i thought was cool and tried that a few times. You think you are doing some cutting edge stuff and then find out that a Man Named Gary reeder has been doing it for years. Hahaha. You Know 500 Linebaugh case knecked down to 44 cal and so on and so forth. Ive tried some ignorant stuff just cuz it was fun. And thats what its all about Huh Fellas. Heck Lee and his pop have made some really cool ones to. Fermin has been in here a lot and he always gets a kick out of all the experiments. So if you are looking for a really Killer cartridge in .357, the Dan wesson cased 360 makes it easy. Its 1.400" or something close and i load it the same as the maximum. Favorites are 180 xtp 18.5 grains of H110 and the Martin Bradshaw 192 powder coated with 18.5 grains of 4227. Its a real smoker. As the bigger bullets have come available on the .5 stuff you just about have to stick with 1.4! Any longer and you have no bullet jump room. On the 1.450 cased 44 i have found that on the 300 grain plus bullets , 5 to 6 more grains over the standard 44 mag load is just about right. Same on the 41 extra longs. However i have shortened my originall 41 cals back to 1.450 as well since i got turned on to longer heavier 41 cast leads. It sure makes it easy when a company like Starline jumps on the band Waggon and gets us great cases though and the 360 dan wesson case is a dynamite Round. If you are a big Maximum fan and have a good hand surgeon in the familly i strongly suggest another ignorant experiment i had once the 460 SW came available. It is a 1.800 case shortend to 1.600 and if you think a 454 is a handfull. wait till you touch this mother off. My first shot bopped me right in the noggin. I dont even think it needs rifling. I think with a smooth bore it would probably work just fine. By the time it gets ready to start tumbling its already 300 yards down range. 250 Grain Xtps leave the 8 inch barrel at MACH JESUS im not kiddinbut the muzzle blast is ferocious. I do load 1680 in the 360 DW and it works well to. Same as the 44 x 1.450. Here is a couple of my favorite 44 1.450 s Om NM with a titanium Grip Frame Smith Triple lock look a like Redhawk. Dan Wesson 360
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Post by bigbore5 on Dec 21, 2023 18:40:14 GMT -5
The bottom one is perfect.
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Post by Encore64 on Dec 21, 2023 19:30:23 GMT -5
I'm leaning hard towards this project on a BFR. A bit heavy in 357 Magnum, but lots of benefits too.
Six round capacity, transfer bar for safe carry fully loaded, etc.
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Post by pattontime on Dec 21, 2023 20:25:40 GMT -5
Let's all backorder more 360 Dan Wesson brass at Starline!! I am up to 3 or 4 thousand, I would have to look. Sooner or later they will make it but it's hard to be patient, I will surely have my 357 BFR reamed, maybe my 357 6-shot Redhawk, I will have to see. A custom Ruger Bisley like Ronnie showed would sure be nice too.
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Post by hunter01 on Dec 21, 2023 20:27:07 GMT -5
I'm leaning hard towards this project on a BFR. A bit heavy in 357 Magnum, but lots of benefits too. Six round capacity, transfer bar for safe carry fully loaded, etc. I’ve already got one in the works. I’ll have a range report and ballistic data when the cylinders come back from reaming.
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Post by bigbore5 on Dec 21, 2023 23:33:40 GMT -5
I'm leaning hard towards this project on a BFR. A bit heavy in 357 Magnum, but lots of benefits too. Six round capacity, transfer bar for safe carry fully loaded, etc. I’ve already got one in the works. I’ll have a range report and ballistic data when the cylinders come back from reaming. May I ask whom you found to do the reaming without having to send the whole gun?
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Post by majorKAP on Dec 22, 2023 12:19:56 GMT -5
I have a Ruger in 360DW built long ago by Dave Clements. He told me it's the only one he ever did.
I nearly sold it off once before but I'm glad I didn't. It's been lots of fun.
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Post by Encore64 on Dec 22, 2023 13:06:19 GMT -5
I have a Ruger in 360DW built long ago by Dave Clements. He told me it's the only one he ever did. I nearly sold it off once before but I'm glad I didn't. It's been lots of fun. Dave and I talked about that gun earlier this week...
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tj3006
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,983
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Post by tj3006 on Dec 22, 2023 15:24:06 GMT -5
Can a guy safely ream a factory ruger full sized NM Blackhawk cyl to fit 360 DW brass? I am sure you would need to be bit choosey with bullets, but hell, fun is fun. ...tj
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Post by Encore64 on Dec 22, 2023 15:29:26 GMT -5
TJ, that cylinder is awfully short. Pressure wise, I'd say stay at 357 Mag Limits and you'd be fine.
But, if you have to seat bullets deep you've already defeated the purpose...
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