|
Post by dougader on Jan 17, 2017 15:08:16 GMT -5
Brian Pearce says the 696 is good for his tier 3 loads at 25k psi; is the GP 44 Spl up to anything less?
|
|
|
Post by paul105 on Jan 17, 2017 18:44:12 GMT -5
Brian Pearce walked that back in a subsequent article due to thin barrel shank on the 396/696. Cylinder is strong enough, but barrel shank is problematic. I'll see if I can find the article and post a bit more info.
Paul
|
|
kooz
.327 Meteor
Posts: 618
|
Post by kooz on Jan 17, 2017 19:09:30 GMT -5
Yes, I remember that also and was looking thru my articles trying to find it, but had no luck.
|
|
|
Post by AxeHandle on Jan 17, 2017 19:24:55 GMT -5
FWIW my GP100 44 forcing cone walls are thin but not close to eggshell thin. I'd bet the barrel into the frame window extension is significantly shorter than the S&W. Remember guys... This is Ruger... They are well known for making stuff overly stout. However, if it is as thin as you are thinking you better grab one quick. They will be gone and will never return.
|
|
|
Post by paul105 on Jan 17, 2017 19:33:28 GMT -5
Handloader #293 Dec 2014, page 20
Here are the two pertinent paragraphs from Brian's article.
"I have tested both the Models 396 and 696 with loads generating up to 27,000 psi without any indication of excess pressure. The robust five-shot cylinders of the Models 696/396 are not a weak link. The barrel proper or breech might be. For example the 696/396 frame threads are the same as those used on the L-frame .357 Magnums (Models 586/686), but when the barrel is .44 caliber, the breech becomes rather thin, often measuring around .035 inch, and can split due to several factors.
So what pressure levels are suitable for continuous use in the L-frame .44 Specials? Again, the cylinders and frames are plenty strong for any reasonable load, but to prevent splitting or bulging the barrel breech or forcing cone, pressures should not exceed18,000 psi."
Paul
|
|
|
Post by DiamondD on Jan 18, 2017 4:55:30 GMT -5
Even thinner as I recall. I have owned the 396 & 696 and have a GP44 sitting here . The forcing cone portion of the barrel that sticks into the frame window is not much thicker than an eggshell if at all, I'm surprised that they would go with something that thin . With the cyl throats being oversized and most likely needing to shoot a .433 bullet to get the thing to shoot descent and not lead up will mean pounding oversized bullets into an ultra-thin barrel shell, can't imagine that this is a good situation. My mistake, I did some measuring this morning before this gun gets send off to a new home. Egg shell- .021 , GP44 bbl thickness in frame window .031 WOW! I really didn't think it was that thin, but you could literally cut yourself on it . Well that kind of dampens my enthusiasm! I'll have to study one right next to a M69 but this doesn't sound good.
|
|
|
Post by magpouch on Jan 18, 2017 6:29:48 GMT -5
Curious, I wonder if throating the barrel ever so slightly to increase the "funnel" and shooting only lead bullets would help keep the barrel "safe". That's my plan anyway, the throat on mine is rough so I plan to just dust it at 11 degrees and see if that will help. My gap is about .008 and my chambers are .434 so pressure will be reduced to some (limited) degree anyway.
Still loving this revolver, it's my first .44 so I have much to learn.
|
|
|
Post by dougader on Jan 19, 2017 12:40:46 GMT -5
Handloader #293 Dec 2014, page 20 Here are the two pertinent paragraphs from Brian's article. "I have tested both the Models 396 and 696 with loads generating up to 27,000 psi without any indication of excess pressure. The robust five-shot cylinders of the Models 696/396 are not a weak link. The barrel proper or breech might be. For example the 696/396 frame threads are the same as those used on the L-frame .357 Magnums (Models 586/686), but when the barrel is .44 caliber, the breech becomes rather thin, often measuring around .035 inch, and can split due to several factors. So what pressure levels are suitable for continuous use in the L-frame .44 Specials? Again, the cylinders and frames are plenty strong for any reasonable load, but to prevent splitting or bulging the barrel breech or forcing cone, pressures should not exceed18,000 psi." Paul That's good information to know, Paul. Thanks for passing it along. I haven't shot mine yet, but I did swap out my tier 3 loads for some just-over-15k loads in the mean time. I'd love to see Brian Pearce review and write up an article on the new GP 44 Spl.
|
|
|
Post by dougader on Jan 19, 2017 18:50:45 GMT -5
Honestly, I jumped on the GP 44 Spl assuming it could handle Keith loads. If I can't safely push a 250 Keith to at least 900 - 1000 fps I might just send this one down the road and step up to the S&W 69 that so many here seem to be lovin' on.
I was looking at this to be a good hiking, fishing, camping gun. No problem for 2-legged varmints, but my G19 will handle that with less weight and more firepower. It's the odd mama black bear with cubs that I might stumble into while working my way upstream that concerns me. I fish away from crowds and hike in. It's me, God and my lead slinger when I'm out there... and the cell phone has no reception, either.
Time will tell. Maybe I can get out to the range this weekend if the weather isn't too bad.
|
|
paulg
.375 Atomic
Posts: 2,420
|
Post by paulg on Jan 19, 2017 18:57:03 GMT -5
Honestly, I jumped on the GP 44 Spl assuming it could handle Keith loads. If I can't safely push a 250 Keith to at least 900 - 1000 fps I might just send this one down the road and step up to the S&W 69 that so many here seem to be lovin' on. I was looking at this to be a good hiking, fishing, camping gun. No problem for 2-legged varmints, but my G19 will handle that with less weight and more firepower. It's the odd mama black bear with cubs that I might stumble into while working my way upstream that concerns me. I fish away from crowds and hike in. It's me, God and my lead slinger when I'm out there... and the cell phone has no reception, either. Time will tell. Maybe I can get out to the range this weekend if the weather isn't too bad. You might find someone to make a trade with Doug. A 69 for your GP. I wouldn't trade my 69 for a GP but somebody out there might. ; - )
|
|
|
Post by dougader on Jan 19, 2017 19:41:32 GMT -5
I would lean toward the newly announced 2-3/4" Model 69. I love me some short-barreled goodness.
|
|
|
Post by BigBore44 on Jan 19, 2017 19:49:24 GMT -5
I'm not gonna jump to any "weakness" conclusions about the GP-44 yet. I just don't see Ruger building something under built to handle full SPL loads... They may have QC issues with fit n finish But, they usually build hell for stout guns! IMHO Once mines in hand I don't plan to baby it any. I'm not making it into a Mag but I will run full tilt loads and see where we go from there. I think a 4" 69 will live here one day in the Not too distant future but, I think it'll just be a bigger brother to the GP-44 Just my .02 BigBore44
|
|
|
Post by dougader on Jan 19, 2017 20:07:50 GMT -5
I hear you, Ray, but if it's sane, learned advice (like Pearce, for example) then 18k psi is not going to get me where I want to be. I'm hoping for at least the Tier 2 loads being acceptable.
|
|
|
Post by DiamondD on Jan 19, 2017 20:59:58 GMT -5
I sure expected it wouldn't hav the thin forcing cone like the 696. I would expect the GP would handle a lifetime of shooting Skeeter's load of a 250 over 7.5 grains of Unique, which is what I would run in it. That forcing cone though is the reason I never got a 696 while prices were still reasonable.
|
|
|
Post by ezekiel38 on Jan 20, 2017 7:51:47 GMT -5
Own several 44s, my favorite special load is the 250Keith over 8.0 Power Pistol and a standard primer for 1,ooo fps. Brian Pearce loves this load as it produces less than 16K pressure and is very, very accurate.
|
|