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Post by blue45colt on Jan 10, 2015 11:32:40 GMT -5
Thumbing through an old issue of Handloader,(Aug. 2002, #218),there is an article written by Brian Pearce entitled "Handloading The .45 ACP". One of his test guns was a S&W 625-6 Mountain Gun.
There is a picture showing the gun with a loaded half moon clip inserted in the cylinder together with a loaded full moon clip along side.
Another picture shows the left side profile of the gun but the caliber marking on the barrel is fuzzy...I think it is marked .45 ACP.
I have a 625-6 Mountain gun chambered in .45 Colt. Did S&W make two different chamberings and identify them both as Model 625-6?
I've always been under the impression that the cylinder required modification to accept moon clips. The picture clearly shows no such modification. In fact the OD of the installed half moon clip looks to be almost flush with the cylinder OD...there is no c'bore on the face of the cylinder to accept moon clips.
If I load a .45 ACP round in my gun, point the barrel up so the round is seated against the recoil shield, the extractor groove looks to be entirely visible which says to me that a moon clip should have enough clearance to position and hold .45 ACP rounds in my gun.
Has anyone ever heard of firing .45 ACP ammo w/moon clips in a "standard" double action .45 Colt chambered revolver with no modifications for moon clip use, or am I missing something?
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Post by 2 Dogs on Jan 10, 2015 12:32:53 GMT -5
I would have to go hunt it down to see exactly how it is marked but I have a 45 acp Mountain Gun. I also have one in 45 Colt, so I know they are both MGs.
The 45 Colt cylinder can be modified to shoot 45 acp as well as 45 Colt. If memory serves, Rob Leahy had one so modified.
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Post by bushog on Jan 10, 2015 13:03:25 GMT -5
I had one too. Sold it to bigborecolt if I recall.
I shot .45AR out of mine so to not need the moon clips. Dandy gun and accurate.
You can fit a whole bunch of those .45AR rounds in you're pocket.
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Post by blue45colt on Jan 10, 2015 15:05:52 GMT -5
Thanks for the input. What was confusing me is the possibility that there maybe are two different chamberings with the same model #...but that may be the answer.
Two Dogs...by modifying, do you mean turning a c'bore in the cylinder to accept the moon clips? Looking at that picture there sure doesn't look like there is much material on the diameter to do it.
Bushhog...I've thought about .45AR brass...do you remember anything good/bad about accuracy using the shorter ammo in the .45 Colt chambers? Also thought about using the shorter .45 Schofield brass for plinking/shotshell type loads.
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awp101
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Post by awp101 on Jan 10, 2015 16:59:27 GMT -5
According to the Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson 3d Edition, the 625-5 and -6 were/are .45 Colt and the 625-2, -4 and -10 were/are .45 ACP. Of course that doesn't mean the author didn't have his -6 modified to use moon clips or possibly even had someone swap in a dedicated .45 ACP cylinder and replace or remark the barrel.
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Post by bushog on Jan 10, 2015 17:09:11 GMT -5
.45AR goes in the .45ACP chambered guns as they have thick rims instead of the moon clip. I liked them because they don't require a clip.
You can't shoot the .45AR in a .45 Colt gun. The rims are too thick.
Sorry I didn't make myself clear.
There used to be somebody that sold cut down .45 Colt brass..called it a .45 cowbow or some such thing. Sorta like a .45 Special. I don't remember more than that.
Thought it kinda silly.
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Post by dale53 on Jan 10, 2015 17:37:36 GMT -5
I have a regular issue 625-6 with 5" barrel that is chambered in .45 ACP. Moonclips are standard for this revolver when using .45 ACP brass. .45 Auto Rims may be used without alteration. .45 Cowboy Special brass has the dimensions of the .45 ACP with the .45 Colt rim. It was developed for those Cowboy Action shooters that desired to shoot reduced loads of black powder in their .45 colt revolvers for less recoil (less recoil=faster repeat shots). I have a Ruger SS Bisley .45 Colt/.45 ACP convertible. As it so happens, the .45 Cowboy Special brass headspaces correctly when using the .45 ACP cylinder (in my revolver, at least, and a couple of others to my personal knowledge). Single Actions do not/cannot use moonclips so they have the same headspace as the .45 Colt. Why would anyone want to use them in a .45 ACP cylinder? You could use reduced black powder loads with heavy bullets (the rim allows you to crimp in the crimp groove of bullets such as the Lyman 452664, 454423, AND 454424). Or, if you, for ANY reason, wanted to use heavy bullet smokeless loads with the .45 ACP cylinder, you can. They work just fine, too. Me? I had several hundred Cowboy Action cases from another project, so I tried them...   Just a thought or two... Dale53 |
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Post by 44Vaqueros on Jan 10, 2015 18:30:34 GMT -5
Gotta love them Big Bore Mountain Guns.
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Post by bushog on Jan 10, 2015 18:32:43 GMT -5
Thanks for the input. What was confusing me is the possibility that there maybe are two different chamberings with the same model #...but that may be the answer. Two Dogs...by modifying, do you mean turning a c'bore in the cylinder to accept the moon clips? Looking at that picture there sure doesn't look like there is much material on the diameter to do it. Bushhog...I've thought about .45AR brass...do you remember anything good/bad about accuracy using the shorter ammo in the .45 Colt chambers? Also thought about using the shorter .45 Schofield brass for plinking/shotshell type loads. I need to work on my communication skills... The .45 cowboy was my response to the quoted post.... |
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Post by 44Vaqueros on Jan 10, 2015 18:34:31 GMT -5
I always find out about S&W's oddballs and special run stuff about ten years late and prices through the roof.  |
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Post by blue45colt on Jan 11, 2015 18:16:19 GMT -5
What got my interest up was seeing that photo with the loaded half moon clip rounds in what I thought was a "standard" .45 Colt Model 625-6 Mountain gun. I've always thought, incorrectly I guess, that a Model 625-6 was a Mountain gun & that it is only chambered in .45 Colt.
My first impression was, wow is he shooting .45ACP in a .45 Colt chambered gun with no apparent modification? Then when I loaded a .45ACP round in mine and saw that most of the extractor groove was visible when the round is up against the recoil shield, I thought that well maybe dimensions are such that it could be possible.
Dale53...
You may have answered the basic question if your gun is identified as a Model 625-6 & is chambered in .45ACP. Yours also has a full underlug barrel in lieu of the tapered/contoured one on mine.
S&W must have indeed made more than one chambering for the same model number.
Again, thanks to all who have supplied information...I think I've chased this rabbit into a hole.
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Post by cas on Jan 12, 2015 17:33:22 GMT -5
Did S&W make two different chamberings and identify them both as Model 625-6? Yes they made them in both 45 Colt and 45 Acp, barrels marked appropriately. I've always been under the impression that the cylinder required modification to accept moon clips. The picture clearly shows no such modification. In fact the OD of the installed half moon clip looks to be almost flush with the cylinder OD...there is no c'bore on the face of the cylinder to accept moon clips. That's exactly how they should look. I don't think it would be possible to counterbore a cylinder for moon clips. All that would be left would be a tiny ring of metal around the outside of the cylinder that would serve no purpose. I think visually the only difference between the cylinder face of the 45 ACP and the 45 colt (besides the chambers) is the star is a little taller on the ACP. |
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Post by rjm52 on Jan 13, 2015 22:11:22 GMT -5
IIRC there is a poster over on the 24HourCampfire named acuban who has a 625-? in .45 Colt that he personally milled the cylinder so it can shoot both AR and ACP.
Check with TK Custom. They have rechambered and milled three of my Smiths to shoot 9mm and .38 Super from .38 and .357 Magnum revolvers...
Bob
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Post by nc12215 on Jan 13, 2015 23:31:27 GMT -5
I have a 25-5 that has been modified to shoot 45 ACP with moon clips. I can also shoot 45 Colt with moonclips or without. This is my all time favorite revolver. I have owned it for 20 years or so. I shoot more ACP in it now than the Big Colt. I still pack it with some Linebaugh 25-5 loads in areas that I might run up against Grizzlies. Great gun and a worthwhile modification.
I have even earned a card in USPSA Revolver with it.
Dave
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Post by magnumwheelman on Jan 14, 2015 8:58:58 GMT -5
44 VAQUEROS... I have one of those, & it's honestly one of my favorite double actions... `it's always loaded with 5 - gold dot Speer rounds... ready to go...  |
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