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Post by bradshaw on May 18, 2024 7:01:49 GMT -5
awp101.... beautiful looking revolver. I would try it as is.
At it’s introduction, Ruger’s Vaquero a straightforward permutation of the Peacemaker aesthetic built around Bill Ruger’s passive-safety, transfer bar lockwork. A Blackhawk/SBH frame with Colt’s fixed sight topstrap. It was aimed at the burgeoning Cowboy Action crowd. Confusion set in when Ruger slightly shrank the frame to original Blackhawk scale, in keeping with the 1873 Colt, naming the smaller frame the New Vaquero. Or is it New Model Vaquero? Despite the “never say never” characterization of Ruger, it would be out of character for Ruger to chamber the smaller New Vaquero in .44 or .41 Magnum.
As Trey and Tyrone intone, the sweet little birdhead grip works much better with light----not heavy loads. For a New Vaquero with birdhead grip in .44 Mag, I would immediately try a 240 SWC over 5.5/HP-38, or selfsame Win 231, DEEP SEATED in .44 Mag brass. Deep seating increases combustion efficiency.
Before I’d fire .44 Mags in the Birdhead Vaquero , I’d fit an enlarged aluminum Birdhead by Ronnie Wells. David Bradshaw
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Post by bradshaw on May 16, 2024 18:14:14 GMT -5
Professor.... a manufacturer told me that all the laminated stocks he was aware of were made at a plywood factory in Vermont. Don’t know about profiling and inletting. Laminates are typically stronger & heavier than a standard stock.
Through living with its adjustable trigger and tang safety over a span of cartridges, the old M-77 abides my respect. The prize I miss the most, a dog leg wand in 6mm Remington, with Leupold Vari-X II 2-7x scope. That action is just a touch longer than the Remington M-700 .308 action, thus perfect for the 6mm Remington (6mmx57mm). David Bradshaw
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Post by bradshaw on May 16, 2024 9:22:25 GMT -5
Lee.... as you state, once wind craters the X-count, the job resorts to herding all your ponies to the center corral. Perhaps the 6mm PPC of Edwin Davis drifted a pinch less than the .30’s to grip the ten ring. Shooters who stick around to compete when adversity assaults consistency are the shooters who learn from rough going. David Bradshaw
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Post by bradshaw on May 14, 2024 14:00:25 GMT -5
singleaction.... the Super Blackhawk Hunter is the only 7-1/2” barrel revolver to suit me. Due more to the untapered rib barrel and Maximum ejector stroke, which slings fired brass wherever you want. Sadly, it’s the only Ruger cataloged with the great, original Redhawk front sight. The Hunter makes a dandy iron sight stick.
I’ve encountered over-tightened barrels. A torque wrench does not replace THREAD TIMING. Consensus of a Hunter .45 Colt among shooters on Singleactions is positive.
In the other hand, a Ronnie Wells revolver may find you shooting that one----to the neglect of others. David Bradshaw
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Post by bradshaw on May 14, 2024 12:19:30 GMT -5
I just pin gauged the Throats of a model 629 Classic, at .429. .430 would not go through any of the throats. My Redhawk pinned at .431. I like that better. .429 would add considerable pressure if the bullet is .431 or .432. As far as accuracy, i will need to slug the bore, but .429 throats seems a bit tight. I will call Fermin latter today...tj ***** Were your new Redhawk and M-629 mine, first stop is to clean & lube, followed by a trip to the firing line. Theorizing accuracy doesn’t equal serious Target Time. Chamber exit holes of .429” are firm. I have a Freedom Arms M-83 .44 Mag with .429 exit holes and no hone need look for work on it. My Dan Wesson Arms M-44 .44 Mag won a championship shootoff with ten shots from the 8” Vent Heavy barrel that would fit a large palm from the distance of two football fields + two end zones; stock revolver, iron sights, on a uncovered firing line. The range faced northeast, allowing the late afternoon sun to reflect off the base of the Federal 240 JHP (or perhaps it was its accuracy twin, the Sierra 240 JHC). The visual made for conversation among the normally silent folks on spotting scopes. Soon after, Dan Wesson Arms measured the revolver and found .426" chamber exits! The factory opened the throats, which didn’t improve accuracy. This first-out-of-the-factory DWA M-44 also possessed a concentric, very short and smooth 11-degree forcing cone. Chamber-to-bore runout (chamber-to-bore alignment) was close to zero (.000”). Firm or tight chamber exit holes (throats) almost certainly would cause leading and degraded accuracy from cast bullets. David Bradshaw
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Post by bradshaw on May 14, 2024 8:47:14 GMT -5
I’m looking at a project grade NMBH that’s missing the ejector rod and housing. It’s currently a 6.5” barrel but if I get it, I have plans to cut it to 4”-4.5”. Which ejector assembly would I need and would I have to drill a new hole for the retaining screw? I have similar questions about a 5.5” Vaquero as well. If I cut it to 4”-4.5” will the stock housing work or do I need a shorter one? Thanks! ***** A standard ejector assembly, configured for 4-5/8” barrel, fits 5-1/2”, 6-1/2”, 7-1/2”, and 10-1/2” tapered barrel with soldered front sights. If your barrel has a countersink with a “nut” soldered in it for attaching the housing, you want a housing with a countersink to fit over the nut. If your barrel is drilled & tapped, you want the housing without the countersink. A “nut” soldered to the barrel facilitates attaching the ejector assembly with more thread depth to a thin, tapered big bore barrel. Be sure to order an ejector rod with crescent-style button. The Maximum ejector assembly, configured to completely extract the 1.605” .357 Maximum case, is one inch longer than the standard, and fits barrels as short as 5-1/2”. The Maximum ejector housings are screwed directly to the barrel. Some ejector rods----probably starting with the .357 Maximum----are heat treated. Depending on caliber, some ejector rods are round, some have a single flat, while others have two flats on the rod. Ruger has made shorter assemblies. David Bradshaw
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Post by bradshaw on May 13, 2024 21:04:58 GMT -5
Trapr.... always treated neck expansion as a ver important reloading step. Prefer to lube inside neck with molydisulphide or graphite applied via Q-Tip or nylon brush in an evaporative medium. Have also applied by same method Brownells Dry-Slide as long as they’ve offered it, 30 years or so. Don’t cotton to a poorly shaped, sticky expander. David Bradshaw
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Post by bradshaw on May 13, 2024 9:15:23 GMT -5
45MAN.... a short TRANSFER BAR can produce light indent, especially if there any bevel on the tip of the transfer bar. The short bar doesn’t raise high enough to fully press the firing pin, resulting in light indent. Note that a light indent also may produce a misfire. Some leaf springs are prone to weakening; this is more a matter of metallurgy than concept. An inferior coil spring may weaken or break.
Propper HAMMER DOG and TRIGGER SEAR angles trip cleanly, with the trigger sweeping rearward @ hammer fall.
Fugitive trigger and revolver type A bad trigger job, dubbed or worn engagement, or damage from pushing on a cocked hammer to “check sear engagement" may cause the trigger to kick forward at hammer fall. The condition is not limited to single actions or a single actions with transfer bar; it includes Smith & Wesson, Ruger, and other double action revolvers when fired single action. Like a hernia, a fugitive trigger doesn’t heal itself. David Bradshaw
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Post by bradshaw on May 12, 2024 20:38:50 GMT -5
I emailed them and Lori confirmed…nothing leaves their shop with less than a 3# pull. I may eventually go this route with David’s suggestion but I’m currently exploring other options first. ***** Randy.... on the trigger, your other option is order two or three trigger springs (along with extra firing pins and firing pin springs). Providing revolver has correct FULL COCK DOG (hammer) and SEAR (trigger)engagement, a sublimely light bend on the trigger spring will reduce pull weight. Note: at hammer fall, if trigger kicks forward you have a fugitive trigger (fugitive sear engaement). Spring pressure cannot correct fugitive engagement angles. Engagement angle of hammer/trigger interface must be correct. David Bradshaw
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Post by bradshaw on May 12, 2024 19:37:54 GMT -5
I have a stainless Ruger Bisley, 45 colt/45ACP. I have having difficulty at times with fired rounds, namely spend primers, dragging on the recoil shield when cocking the hammer for the next shot. At times I need to give the cylinder a little boost to get it to move. The timing is spot on. These are factory rounds from cowboy (rarely), to underwood normal pressure (most of the time) to some +P. I have seen multiple versions of ruger recoil shields, some carefully designed, others just flat. This a just flat variety. Any thoughts would be welcome. David. ***** David.... sounds like a PRIMER BLANKING. Usually caused by LIGHT INDENT. Jargon* BLANKING, aka Primer Planking----primer cup extrudes into firing pin hole. Hand turn cylinder to shear the flowed slug of primer cup. * LIGHT INDENT, aka Light Primer Indent----weak hammer fall, usually the result of a weak mainspring, fails to support primer under peak pressure. Symptoms indicate weak mainspring. However, blanking also may occur from normal loads against a worn or oversize firing pin hole that allows primer cup to flow around firing pin. David Bradshaw
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Post by bradshaw on May 10, 2024 7:18:15 GMT -5
Have my eye on an older, NM"super"BH blue 44 Mag with 7-1/2" barrel and fluted cylinder in Bisley configuration. I LIKE the fluted cylinder look. All my Bisley's are shorter and SS (all Lipsey's), 3.75 to 5-1/2". What is involved in shortening the barrel? Cut from rear or front? Rethroat if from rear? New, "pinnned" front sight if from front? Refinish I assume? Reset the cylinder gap if too loose? This inquiring mind is curious... Alan ***** A checklist helps answer questions:* Target revolver via sandbag rest @ 25 yards. * Visual inspect FORCING CONE. It should be concentric to bore, smooth, short to moderate in depth. If the factory 11-degree included angle cone appears fine, do not recut it, even when setting the barrel back one thread. * Slug bore, 1) to detect any loose or tight spots, 2) to check groove diameter. A combination of loose and tight spots condemns accuracy. A compressing ring in the bore where BARREL SHOULDER meets FRAME requires fire lapping at minimum. Stainless resists fire lapping more than carbon steel. Other therapy requires barrel removal, with a minimum of setting back the barrel shoulder to hand tighten 10-12 degrees BTDC (Before Top Dead Center. * To shorten barrel, trim muzzle end. Unless the barrel is an untapered bull (silhouette) configuration, Super Blackhawk barrels are tapered. * When shortening barrel, now is the time to decide whether you want a changeable front sight, and whether the base will be screwed or soldered. * When a barrel with compression ring (from over-tightening) is removed, re-slug barrel to see if compression ring disappears. Also, hand tighten to note thread timing. David Bradshaw
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Post by bradshaw on May 9, 2024 10:24:40 GMT -5
Aciera, I don’t know pressure specs, but the bolt gun data is stouter than the gas gun data. Using standard gas gun parts. When you get into heavy buffers, heavy BCGs and adjustable gas blocks things can get hotter. The loads I run in my bolt gun use a different bullet visually easy to tell the difference because they are a bit stouter than the load I run in my gas guns. Primers flatten, crater or pierce quite a bit when shot in the gas gun. Yet the bolt gun shoots them with no visual pressure issues, they are below listed loads for the round provided by Redding. Trapr ***** Trapr brings up an important point: why do we speak specific pressure numbers when we haven’t the means the measure pressure? And, when comparing specific numbers, we we appreciate pressure excursions? A half century ago, few handloaders talked PSI----pounds per square inch chamber pressure. High Power Rifle and silhouette competitors didn’t talk PSI. Back then we loaded for the firearm and the target. Common sense was our pressure gauge; we seldom got into trouble. It takes thousands of rounds to wear out a gun, but only one to ruin it. As for a bolt gun, I’d look at Tikka, a slick feeding tack driver with excellent trigger, providing it chambers your round. I’d also put CZ and Howa ahead of the Ruger American with its rougher assembly and stiff bolt lift. David Bradshaw
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Post by bradshaw on May 8, 2024 9:11:57 GMT -5
awp101.... as lockhart alludes, the S&W N frame with .44 Mag metallurgy is no match for the Ruger Blackhawk/SBH frame in strength and durability. An experiment, of you will, conducted in silhouette over thousands of silhouette matches, backed up in technicolor by the creations of John Linebaugh and the Howitzer Tribe. I haven’t heard anyone willing to compare S&W vs Ruger cylinder metallurgy straight up. On a design which has the cylinder stop (bolt) directly over the chamber, or very close, and forward of the case web, it’s easier in use odd number chambering than to relocate the cylinder stop.
Revolvers which considered stop location in design include the Ruger Redhawk and Dan Wesson Model 44. Both of which by virtue of the lost wax casting process incorporate “solid frame” construction. Versus sideplate design, a virtual necessity of the drop forging process. It’s fallacious to compare revolver frame strength on the basis of investment casting (lost wax) and drop forging----without testing the same frame, one investment cast, the other drop forged. To machine away the outer skin of a drop forging removes its much ballyhooed linear grain strength. The homogenized grain orientation in investment casting continues after its outer skin is removed. This is not to declare drop forging obsolete, merely to emphasize both processes intelligently performed remain incredibly viable.
Somewhere around 1980 I walked into McBrides Gun Shop, just off Lamar Boulevard in Austin, Texas. One of the McBride boys was behind the counter, engaged with a young, handsome, highly excited customer. Ripe for entertainment, I listened in. The young man had sent his M-29 back to Smith & Wesson. The factory had contacted him with the offer to flat-rate a new Model 29, but it would have a 6” barrel in place of the original’s 6-1/2” barrel. As the 6-1/2 inch had been discontinued, it was no longer available. The customer greatly appreciated S&W offer to flat rate a new revolver, but the half inch difference in barrel length seemed like the end of the Earth.
I remember the story like I’m still standing there. The young man loaded 100 rounds of .44 Magnum, with the intention of impressing some friends. Somewhere in the Hill Country he commenced to demonstrate the awesome power of the .44 Remington Magnum. He and his friends took turns firing "90 rounds" of “240 grain bullets, each loaded with "10 grains of Bullseye.” For the finale, the last 10 of 90 rounds were loaded with “12 grains of Bullseye.” Our handsome macho man would inaugurate the finale.
And here the story gets hazy. I don’t remember whether our hero got off one, or two rounds.... KA-BOOM!
Shouting, “Yellow light blinded me in both eyes! I could not hear! My gun... in pieces!”
Catastrophic failure History shows that when a cylinder lets go, the frame is damaged. If the top strap is merely bent, the frame may be salvageable. When one chamber bursts, it usually bends the top strap. When the top three chambers blow off, it usually peals up the back of the topstrap. Or, takes off the whole topstrap.
Battering Rugers don’t shoot loose the way a Smith does. Silhouette provided ample evidence. Silhouette also demonstrated a tight Ruger doesn’t batter at all. And a properly made Model 29 which is firmly fitted----and kept in tight condition----also holds up very well. Once we get into heavier bullets the S&W starts to batter. My silhouette veteran 8-3/8” never saw a bullet over 240 grains. Al Plaas at Smith & Wesson kept it beautiful, set the barrel back, etc., and it’s tight as a Swiss watch.
Back in the early days when rams were set full-foot, it required a stout blow to topple em. This is where the Rugers with heavier bullets didn’t back down. Yet we still lost rams; wobbly stands, warped targets, mud on their feet, that was a given. David Bradshaw
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Post by bradshaw on May 7, 2024 21:07:41 GMT -5
Missing from this conversation, a few knowns and unknowns:
Known * Cylinder for S&W Triple Lock predates steel and heat treatment formulated for .44 Magnum.
* M-29 stop notch centers approximately .250” (1/4’) from .44 case head.
* Super Blackhawk stop notch centers approximately .575” (1/2”+) from .44 case head.
* M-29 and SBH stop notches----both are about .040” deep.
* M-29 stop notch is directly over chamber (12 o’clock).
* SBH stop notch is slightly offset (about 11:40 o’clock).
* Using a Federal .44 Mag case with .163” web thickness: 1) M-29 stop notch centers .087” ahead of case web; 2) SBK stop notch centers .412” ahead of case web.
* Stop notches are quite a bit forward the case web on the Super Blackhawk. This is a function single action lockwork. Stop notches on the S&W are just a pinch forward of the case web. This is a function of double action lockwork.
Unknown * Pressure threshold and TTP (Time to Pressure) threshold for 100 rounds; 5 rounds; 1 round----fired in M-29 cylinder; fired in SBH cylinder.
* Pressure threshold and TTP for respective cylinders with slow, with medium, and with fast powder. David Bradshaw
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Post by bradshaw on May 7, 2024 14:19:09 GMT -5
Hercules made double base powders: nitrocellulose with nitroglycerine added. (DuPont made single base----nitrocellulose----powder. Olin/Winchester specialized in double base powder.)
Providing the powder has been kept cool and dry, it may be perfectly good. Powder which is gray or silvery gray, may be fine. Powder which has yellowed, or appears rusty brown, is decomposing. Dusty or cloudy powder is decomposing. Smokeless powder in decomposition loses power, should not be loaded. David Bradshaw
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