6.5 Grendel

[silcott]

I've been interested in trying a 6.5 Grendel bolt gun. IDK why. My 6.5 AR shoots amazing. Not sure what I want though. CZ, Howa, Ruger?

Anyone have any of the above? Any input would be very appreciated.


Thanks
Justin

[bigbrowndog]

Ruger American, excellent rifle for abusive use and low maintenance. Accurate and allows use of Ar mags, plus threaded for suppressor use and comes with picatinny mount.

Trapr

[squigz]

I have a Carbon Stalker Howa mini in 6.5 Grendel, It was purpose built to be as light as possible and all with with scope, sling and Leupold vxiic 2-7x32 and ammo, it's 6.1 lbs.

The gun is amazing nimble, the action isn't the smoothest but for a hunting rifle it works. It's EXTREMELY accurate and basically shoots everything I've fed it from 85gr up to 129gr, I settled on 100gr Nosler Ballistic Tips and XBR and it'll hold 3/4" at 100 yards all day, so long as I do my job.

If you don't mind a little more weight, I would suggest an American or a standard mini action with the heavier barrel and normal stock.

[x101airborne]

Trapr has an excellent suggestion. The only other one I know of is the Howa. More "traditional" of a bolt gun but comes with a single set trigger. When I bought my Howa in 204 Ruger I thought "Meh, I aint never gonna use that.". BULL CORN! I cant STOP using the single set trigger! I wish most of my bolt guns had them. Unfortunately I think you will have to try and find a used one. I dont think that model is made anymore but I could be wrong on that point.

Correction. I have the CZ. Not the Howa. My bad. All else still applies. 

[Lee Martin]

My .30 Stingray is a 6.5 Grendel necked up to .30 (which makes it a .30 Major). From there, I blew the shoulder ahead 0.040" and improved the angle to 40 degrees. It has been very competitive in short-range benchrest. So while I don't have experience with the unaltered 6.5 Grendel, I believe it to be a damn accurate little case. Lapua brass is exceptional, if you can find it. Starline is really good too, the only difference being the 0.080 flash hole.

-Lee
www.singleactions.com
"Chasing perfection five shots at a time"

[Encore64]

I also have the CZ527 with the set trigger. Amazingly accurate and easy to shoot.

When you consider all the game killed with the 6.5 JDJ in a 14" Contender, this is a no-brainer with similar ballistics.

It's a shame all the great CZs have been discontinued...

[silcott]

I have a BCM/Faxon AR in 6.5 Grendel that I built. That gun is amazingly accurate! It shoots in 5's all day with a 123gr MK and XBR 2808. The 4's on a good day.

Just looking to experience it in a bolt gun.

There are a couple CZ on GB. Used obviously. Didn't know if they were worth the extra money. Only CZ I own or have ever owned for that matter is a 452 american. Now that little rifle will shoot!

I do have an SSK 50 frame sitting in the safe. 🤔

[aciera]

May 9, 2024 7:44:04 GMT -5 Encore64 said:

I also have the CZ527 with the set trigger. Amazingly accurate and easy to shoot.

When you consider all the game killed with the 6.5 JDJ in a 14" Contender, this is a no-brainer with similar ballistics.

It's a shame all the great CZs have been discontinued...

So the 6.5 JDJ is to the 6.5 Grendel as the 375 JDJ is to the 375 Winchester. Roughly the same ballistics

I have a 6.5 Grendel set up for cast that I can’t wait to get in to. The guy set it up as a package.
And I just put a 527 on layaway with a flash suppressor…..AR style……a first for all the 527s I have.

Question. The Grendel is limited to 52,000 psi……is this because it was developed for the AR?
As other rounds based on this cartridge go much higher I seem to remember……..like the 6ppc

CZ also sold action for builds

[bigbrowndog]

Aciera, I don’t know pressure specs, but the bolt gun data is stouter than the gas gun data. Using standard gas gun parts. When you get into heavy buffers, heavy BCGs and adjustable gas blocks things can get hotter. The loads I run in my bolt gun use a different bullet visually easy to tell the difference because they are a bit stouter than the load I run in my gas guns. Primers flatten, crater or pierce quite a bit when shot in the gas gun. Yet the bolt gun shoots them with no visual pressure issues, they are below listed loads for the round provided by Redding.

Trapr

[bradshaw]

May 9, 2024 8:56:12 GMT -5 bigbrowndog said:

Aciera, I don’t know pressure specs, but the bolt gun data is stouter than the gas gun data. Using standard gas gun parts. When you get into heavy buffers, heavy BCGs and adjustable gas blocks things can get hotter. The loads I run in my bolt gun use a different bullet visually easy to tell the difference because they are a bit stouter than the load I run in my gas guns. Primers flatten, crater or pierce quite a bit when shot in the gas gun. Yet the bolt gun shoots them with no visual pressure issues, they are below listed loads for the round provided by Redding.

Trapr

*****

Trapr brings up an important point: why do we speak specific pressure numbers when we haven’t the means the measure pressure? And, when comparing specific numbers, we we appreciate pressure excursions? A half century ago, few handloaders talked PSI----pounds per square inch chamber pressure. High Power Rifle and silhouette competitors didn’t talk PSI. Back then we loaded for the firearm and the target. Common sense was our pressure gauge; we seldom got into trouble. It takes thousands of rounds to wear out a gun, but only one to ruin it.

As for a bolt gun, I’d look at Tikka, a slick feeding tack driver with excellent trigger, providing it chambers your round. I’d also put CZ and Howa ahead of the Ruger American with its rougher assembly and stiff bolt lift.
David Bradshaw

[revolvercranker]

May 9, 2024 8:56:12 GMT -5 bigbrowndog said:

Aciera, I don’t know pressure specs, but the bolt gun data is stouter than the gas gun data. Using standard gas gun parts. When you get into heavy buffers, heavy BCGs and adjustable gas blocks things can get hotter. The loads I run in my bolt gun use a different bullet visually easy to tell the difference because they are a bit stouter than the load I run in my gas guns. Primers flatten, crater or pierce quite a bit when shot in the gas gun. Yet the bolt gun shoots them with no visual pressure issues, they are below listed loads for the round provided by Redding.

Trapr

Being I was sort of involved in the development of the 6.5 Grendel here's the story. Bill Alexander at first was using 5.56 bolts for the Grendel. What he did is he had the bolt face openned up for the larger rim on the Grendel which is same as the 7.62x39.  To cover up that he was using the standard 5.56 bolt he cut the bolt face .011 deeper to get rid of the circumferential groove which was present on the 5.56 bolt. This is why if you were building a Grendel at that time you had different headspacing between using a Grendel bolt and a DPMS type bolt. Okay, what was happening because the bolt face was openned up for the larger rim the bolt lugs were being undercut.  This resulted his bolts breaking the lugs. So let's get to the pressure.  The 6.5 Grendel pressure at first was kept in the mid 40k's.  Remember at first there were no bolt action rifles for this round. The CEO of Accurate Powder had argued with Mr. Alexander about what pressure to set for the Grendel as Accurate was adding it to their reloading manaul. He told me personally on the phone that Mr. Alexander was crazy with the pressure limit he suggested and would not do it. Alrighty, that brings us up to bolt steel was changed. The original 5.56 bolt steel was called Carpenter Steel. So someone suggested to Mr. Alexander that rotor shaft had a much tougher steel. I think it's 9310, not sure.  This solved the lug breakage, but still the AR15 is limited to pressure because in reality the bolt is the weak link in this case because the cartridge rim is actually too large for it. Any of the AR's, that is AR15 and AR10, are not weak designs.  Remember the 5.56 NATO cartridge has a much higher pressure then the 223 Remington and the blue pill test round pressure figure will blow your mind. The AR10 is brute strong.  I and some of my friends have had some mishaps with both the AR15 and AR10 and I deem them a fairly safe setup when they let go. That reasoning is bases on the fact that when the case lets go the gas dump is down the magazine well.  It usually results in the magazine being blown out and destroyerd the the extractor eing blown off the bolt and destroyed. For even worse scenario's some bolt lugs are broken and the carrier is split, fortunately none of the shooters have been harmed. The worse that I know if of is an AR10 let go in 6mm Creedmoor because of a hot load of very old and deteriated IMR4350 powder being used. The case let go and the gas took out the magazine and the upper receiver plus the bolt carrier group, but the barrel and barrel extension were unharmed. 

Now as to which bolt action rifle would I prefer the 6.5 Grendel in, hands down CZ or Howa, definately not the Ruger. 

[bigbrowndog]

Will admit the Ruger is not nearly as refined, but it is plenty accurate, and a good low maintenance rifle you don’t mind scratching up in the field.

Trapr

[revolvercranker]

May 9, 2024 11:26:26 GMT -5 bigbrowndog said:

Will admit the Ruger is not nearly as refined, but it is plenty accurate, and a good low maintenance rifle you don’t mind scratching up in the field.

Trapr

I use to be  Ruger fan when I was young. Mainly just the single actions.  Never was a Ruger rifle fan. I only have one and it's a 450 Bushmaster. I will attest to it being very accurate. Other then that it's el cheapo junk with it's flimsy synthetic stock and very generic action.  It also could be dangerous.  The 450 Bushmaster headspaces on the case mouth. So the Ruger has a ledge in the chamber for that purpose.......very very minimal that you can just barely see. If you attempt ANY closing in of the case mouth it easily slips past that headspacing ledge. Thank God the Ruger doesn't have a LONG firing pin.  Case actually slipped pass that ledge and the firing pin couldn't reach the primer.  This is my fault and I know it. I'm very careful about loading 450 Bushmasters now. Got a taper crimper as I do shoot cast out of it and you have to flare the case mouths in  order to get the cast bullet started without shaving it. With jacketed it's a non existing problem.  BTW it's the most minimal headspacing ledge I've seen in any firearm both rifle and pistol. 

[Encore64]

The 6.5 Grendel is a natural for the TC Contender too. I've got it in a 13" Pistol and the 264 LBC in a 23" Carbine. The latter being the same cartridge with tighter tolerances.

Back decades ago, I wanted a 6.5x39 M.O.A. Pistol. Of course, as a teen that was a financial impossibility.

So, when the Grendel came out, I added the two above options since it's little more than the above with less taper and a sharper shoulder.

The PPCs were similar and very successful bench rest rounds. Now, we have the reinvented wheels known as the 22 ARC and 6 ARC...

[revolvercranker]

May 9, 2024 18:28:38 GMT -5 Encore64 said:

The 6.5 Grendel is a natural for the TC Contender too. I've got it in a 13" Pistol and the 264 LBC in a 23" Carbine. The latter being the same cartridge with tighter tolerances.

Back decades ago, I wanted a 6.5x39 M.O.A. Pistol. Of course, as a teen that was a financial impossibility.

So, when the Grendel came out, I added the two above options since it's little more than the above with less taper and a sharper shoulder.

The PPCs were similar and very successful bench rest rounds. Now, we have the reinvented wheels known as the 22 ARC and 6 ARC...

Well Encore somemore history for you. The real inventer of the 6.5 Grendel is one of my very good friends Arne Brennan. He and his friend, whom I'll name by first name, Scotty necked up the 6mmPPC to 6.5 and chambered it in an AR15.  I won't go into the total history how Bill Alexander got involved.  Anyways Arne had said all along that the 6.5 Grendel would have been a better round if it was a 6mm.  BINGO!  the 6mm ARC.  Yup they did reinvent the wheel sort of. Let me explain. Arne's 6.5 Grendel version got submitted to the Lapua development team.  They had been working on something similar. The lead guy over there, I believe his name is Jonni, suggested moving the shoulder out and taking some of the taper out of the case. Viola the 6.5 Grendel was born. So you see now the 6mmPPC doesn't have as much boiler room as the 6mm ARC.