Aggie01
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Post by Aggie01 on Jun 16, 2009 12:36:04 GMT -5
Ok, as some of you know I just got a .401 powermag.
The question is case forming. making from .41 mag.
Do the cases have to be lathe turned at the web, or can they be jammed into a 10mm/.40 die without using the shellholder, and hammered out from the top?
I found someone who will sell loaded ammo with the brass made from .41 mag for $30 per 50.
Buffalo Arms has brass made from .41 mag for $105 per 100.
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Post by Lee Martin on Jun 16, 2009 12:41:18 GMT -5
I've never tried a 40-cal/10mm die, though some say it'll work. My set-up involves a 0.426" straight die that I FL size 41 cases through. It's worked well so far. -Lee www.singleactions.com |
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Aggie01
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Post by Aggie01 on Jun 16, 2009 13:03:37 GMT -5
if Cabela's has a .40/10 lee carbide set in stock when I stop by today, I may run an experiment tonight.
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Aggie01
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Post by Aggie01 on Jun 16, 2009 20:22:34 GMT -5
Ok update:
I got a Lee factory crimp die for .40/10mm. It has a carbide sizing ring.
I shoved a couple .41 mag cases in it with a steel plate on top of the ram and no shellholder.
It ALMOST sized the entire case. maybe 1/64" at the bottom is still .430-.431. the rest of the case is .423/.424.
But, I took the only .40 cal bullet I had laying around, which measured .399-.400, and stuffed it into these cases with hand pressure only.
Fryxell's article says his cases went into the gun at .424, and came out of the gun at .431. Looks like he was using bullets around .405.
Is factory .401 brass thicker than the .41 mag? or is it not intended to be a .401 caliber? (I saw my second reference today that it actually has a .403 groove dia - can anyone confirm?)
I guess I'm stuck till I get the gun here and see what kind of chambers and throats I'm dealing with.
I'm open to suggestions and insights, if anyone has any.
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Post by onegoodshot on Jun 17, 2009 10:20:49 GMT -5
I tried using my 10mm dies to resize 41 mags. Using virgin starline brass I was only able to size about 3/4 of the brass before I got a lip.
I did run a few of the original 401 herters brass though the 10mm dies and that worked just fine although I havent loaded any yet.
I bought some 41 mags off GB that had been turned down. Vacation last week so I just opened them this morning. Most are running .432 to .436 best I can tell. Pretty significant turn marks around the brass, I'll go to the farm tonight after work and see how they chamber in the Herters. If they work, I'll load a few at work tomorrow and see how they function.
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Aggie01
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Post by Aggie01 on Jun 17, 2009 10:41:18 GMT -5
I was able to size almost the entire case becasue I didn't use a shell holder, and I knocked the cases back out of the die from the top with a punch.
I might be able to have someone face off the bottom of the die to get rid of some of the lead in, but I don't want to make that commitment to modifying a die until I know the dimensions of my chambers.
I might buy 50 pre made from someone, fire form them then have a die made to my chamber dimensions.
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Post by Lee Martin on Jun 17, 2009 13:21:21 GMT -5
I was able to size almost the entire case becasue I didn't use a shell holder, and I knocked the cases back out of the die from the top with a punch. That's actually the best way to form them....not the quickest, but it does yield properly formed cases. My die is a straight 0.426 sizer with a rebate for the rim. I simply use a press to force the case into it, then use another press to punch them out. Takes a lot of force to downsize the lower 1/4 of the brass. -Lee www.singleactions.com |
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Aggie01
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Post by Aggie01 on Jun 17, 2009 14:29:35 GMT -5
Didn't take much force for me. Rockchucker and a carbide die. I lubed the first case, and didnt bother with the next ones.
I'll see if I can get a pic of the cases tonight that shows what I'm describing. (although I'm betting that anyone with advice knows exactly what I'm describing already)
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Post by onegoodshot on Jun 17, 2009 15:15:10 GMT -5
Idiot that I am I'd like pics. I tried using both lee and carbide rcbs 40/10mm resizing die. The closer I got to the rim the more of a "lip" was rolled on the brass. If i didnt use a shell holder, it would roll the lip all the way down to the rim and I'm sure it wouldn't chamber.
This is why I like coming here to learn from you guys!
I'm not getting too concerned until my OTT contender barrel arrives as that will be primarily what I shoot. Mike at OTT said he would EDM my lee sizing die if I wasn't satisfied with what I was getting. I will work a few tonight and let you know what happens.
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Aggie01
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Post by Aggie01 on Jun 17, 2009 15:50:16 GMT -5
Is what you are calling a lip a step or a cut edge?
Did you size it in a .41 die first?
Update: I am unable to take a picture where you can see much of anything on these cases.
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Post by onegoodshot on Jun 18, 2009 18:00:18 GMT -5
More of a lip like the brass is running. Anyway, I made a few rounds at work today and it looks as though the turned 41 mag brass will work. The action is so tight on the herters that some of loaded rounds were dragging a little on the breech (dont know term).  Left ro right Orig 401 powermag, brass, 41 mag w/ 180 gr pill, 41 brass I loaded with 6.5 gr of trail boss and will try to shoot tonight. I need to get my 41 mag seater because the 10mm seater was hard on the lead pills. |
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Aggie01
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Post by Aggie01 on Jun 18, 2009 21:57:11 GMT -5
The action is so tight on the herters that some of loaded rounds were dragging a little on the breech (dont know term). Church and Fortis have noted a couple times that the herter's can have a proud/loose firing pin bushing. This may be your hang up. What diameter bullets are you using? / How big are the throats? (says an interested party whose Herter .401 is slowly but surely on the way...) |
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Post by Frank V on Jun 18, 2009 22:51:38 GMT -5
This is just a wild stab, but would a .426 lubrisizeing die work? maybe the case would be able to be pushed all the way to the rim & have the ejection ram push it back out?  ? Like I said it's just a wild stab! Frank |
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Post by Lee Martin on Jun 19, 2009 7:39:08 GMT -5
Any straight 0.426 die will work if you first resize the case in a 41 die. BTW, I have a lot of original 401 brass and ammunition. I'll try to post some photos over the weekend. Word of warning...if you have factory loaded Powermag, the stuff is atomic. Old George's top-end load gave a lot of extraction problems (high pressure + soft Norma brass = big headaches). -Lee www.singleactions.com |
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Post by onegoodshot on Jun 19, 2009 9:11:14 GMT -5
The bullets are .403 180gr. The drag was not due to the firing pin. It was because the brass wasnt fully seated flush in the cylinder. I used a leather glove and a vice to rotate it on through. Closer inspection of the problem brass revealed a little less work on the turning lathe was done. I only loaded 12 rounds and this was the only one that gave me any problems. The rest were fine. It was late and first shot on the chroney gave 705fps all following shots gave errors. More likely low light than a battery problem. So I'm not sure where I am as far as speed goes. All the rounds fell out with a shake or a gentle tap from the extractor.
The factory ammo I have must have been some of the later stuff as they function fine although I've only shot it 12 times prior to last night. The factory pills have some REALLY soft lead. I've got the chrono data on the factory stuff somewhere and I'll try to get you all some pre and post firing measurements this weekend as well as some chroney information. Brought my 41 dies to work today so I shouldn't be maring the tops of the pills now. I also brought some 2400 and bluedot to load today, but more than likely I'll just stick with the trail boss for now.
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? Like I said it's just a wild stab! Frank