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Post by sackpeterson on Jun 17, 2010 20:42:58 GMT -5
I'm interested, I bet we're all interested. I've been looking at Powers site just about everyday recently.
I dont know much about determining market, but I think one way to think about this is to consider why the 10/22 accessories market is so large, and the Blackhawk / S6 accessories market so small by comparision, even though in rough numbers I imagine there has been similiar production of 10/22 vs. BH/S6 by Ruger over the decades. I think theres a hurdle there intrinsic to whos using the products, and what people think they can customize, and that determines the size of the market for accessories.
That said, I think its possible and a potentially profitable small business.
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aciera
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Post by aciera on Jun 17, 2010 21:57:29 GMT -5
We're not Naysayers. We just used to have this guy around here who was everything from a rodeo champion to a famous leather maker.....NoBearsYet. I dont think Ruger is selling the stainless Bisley gripframe anymore so you could likely sell those. As to the #5's most people dont even know what they are..... And BTW, we dont want that other guy back.....again, good luck. Keep us posted. And I stand corrected, you can cast Titanium. I am often a grumpy old fart. I am fairly new to the internet but I have to admit, there are a lot of ...................you fill it in the blank... out there. I am gullable, fact. Went broke because of it, fact. Still gullible, fact. I only loan money, guns, books, and tools to friends that are good enough folks that I don't care if I get them back. I never worry that way. That is why I rant, call PAX, and help anyone I can. If I want to charge for a grip frame, okay. If I want to give a casting to a young kid, who is wanting to get better, My call. If he brings it to me and I critique it and he wants to try again, my choise to give him another...............my choise I am no businessman, fact. But it all works out somehow. Story: Elderly gunwriter was moving and selling some guns, I wanted one. Conversation went like this: "I want one.' -Okay- "How much?" -Half of what I got in it- "Deal! How much is that?" -Seven and a half- "I'll be over in half an hour with the cash." -Fine- "Oh, one thing. What is it?" -A Winchester in 308, I'll stick a peice of glass on it for you- "See ya in a few." Sooooooooooooooooo............ I get there and we sit and BS a while, he had the BEST stories. And his stories were better than ANY fiction. I hand him a case. -What is this?- "That six gun you said you liked one time" I knew I may never see him again, age and distance and his health. -What am I suposed to do with this?- "Bring it back in 20 years, or give it to some kid that needs a sixgun." He smiled and understood the gift. -Thank you very much. Your gun is over there in the sock.- Pre 64 Winchester. 1 1/4 inch Hart Stainless barrel 28 inches long. Big 3 inch wide forearm. High end 12-32 target scope. Built for him by Hart. -Second most accurate gune I ever had. 1/4 inch gun. Shot 5, 5ive shot groups in a row one time, all under 1/4 inch. God my finger was tired.- Big Grin. I took out my pocket knife, scraped the finish off the stock and had him sign it. How much do I have to help folks to balance THAT. The truth is ALWAYS better than fiction. I do what I can...........................Just thought I would give the good folks here something to ask about,,,,,,,,,,,,, PAX
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Post by Mark Terry on Jun 18, 2010 6:55:50 GMT -5
aciera:
Put me down as a supporter. I'd wondered about having gripframes made before but never took the time to look into it in any detail. It sounds like you have the knowledge, connections, and experience to get the part(s) made.
Having the technical ability to produce the part cost effectively is one thing. Being able to develop the sales and marketing is another and I'm probably not the one to crack that nut. Mr. Taffin is probably right that demand won't be great but we all probably have ideas about where gun parts are bought. The Brownell's and Midway's of the world would probably have an interest in a proven part and could get them to market. Those custom 'smiths who are popular on this forum could probably give some insight to demand and would probably be willing to discuss the idea. Demand would be tempered by costs as you'd expect.
It's a tall order and would take a fair amount of time, effort, and money and there's still not a lot of assurance of any sort of volume or profitability.
Then again, how many of us would have bought into the idea that we could start a coffee shop and sell coffee for $4 a cup?
Post Script:
I posted before I read to the end and hadn't seen your last post.
Great story. Life accumulates.
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aciera
.375 Atomic
Posts: 2,071
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Post by aciera on Jun 18, 2010 8:28:24 GMT -5
Thanks for the reply Mark.
Again It isn't a bussiness to support my self.
But REAL custom is REALLY fun.
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Post by avidreader on Jun 18, 2010 8:59:30 GMT -5
This is an extremely interesting post! I will continue to watch it closely, and I can be counted as your #2, [humor] Methinks we need more of your kind in this world ACIERIA. WES
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aciera
.375 Atomic
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Post by aciera on Jun 18, 2010 9:35:55 GMT -5
This is an extremely interesting post! I will continue to watch it closely, and I can be counted as your #2, [humor] Methinks we need more of your kind in this world ACIERIA. WES I have the knowledge I do mostly because of others. Like that Taffin guy. He should write a book. I just enjoy letting others enjoy the sport more. The more conversations, the more we all can learn.
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Post by sugarriver on Jun 18, 2010 10:17:31 GMT -5
I'd be interested in a lightweight Bisley, whether Ti or Al. Since we're casting, how about a copy of the FA 97 GF made to fit on a Ruger?
Pete
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aciera
.375 Atomic
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Post by aciera on Jun 18, 2010 10:53:37 GMT -5
I'd be interested in a lightweight Bisley, whether Ti or Al. Since we're casting, how about a copy of the FA 97 GF made to fit on a Ruger? Pete The "easy part" is casting different metals, not different things. I would cast to pay for what I want, and that is having Number 5s and Bisleys made to fit MY guns. With a few changes to help them fit better. Maybe that is why I stick to one brand............ If I did them on others guns, I would have to have a jig to "blurprint" the holes in the frame if I made all the gripframes the same. "Blueprinting" meaning oversized threaded holes to account for Ruger tolerances. If you do that, then dowel pin holes are a possibility. A friend of mine that was a shop teacher designed and built his own house. His wife liked to play piano in the morning. The morning sun light that came thru the skylight, went down where the circular staircase was and shined on the sheet music on the piano. "How did you think of that?" I asked. -Got a lot of thinking time teaching- says he. I have no TV so I likes to think. It is easier to cut out metal in a casting to make it light, than to add it to round butt it. Or to beef it for a strong aluminum frame and use the same mold. There is lots to think about. I was taught to be cynical about how wonderful something is when you are trying to advance the product. Cheerleaders don't make up for a bad team or coach. You only have to fix the mistakes, the rest is done. Point of diminishing returns noted. Returns ain't what I'm after, I got a day job. Back to your question. Maybe, but there are a lot of variables NOW. Questions?
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Post by blacktailslayer on Jun 18, 2010 14:44:47 GMT -5
I have gone down this road over a year and a half ago as I have stated in other posts. Only I was more interested in the #5 frame and then was going to move into other products.
I too am in the investment casting world working as an investment casting development engineer. Maybe aciera & I work for the same foundry just different locations.
I was ready to do it until the economy really hit the skids and have been a lot more tight with my available cash. Have younger kids and a mortgage that are more important than starting another small business to consume my limited spare time.
Good luck to you as I think that there a market, but as stated several times by others it is small. I may take another run at it myself in the future too, who knows.
Don D.
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aciera
.375 Atomic
Posts: 2,071
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Post by aciera on Jun 18, 2010 14:46:14 GMT -5
I'd be interested in a lightweight Bisley, whether Ti or Al. Since we're casting, how about a copy of the FA 97 GF made to fit on a Ruger? Pete Damn it Pete; Since you said that I keep wondering if it is possible! Luckily I don't have a FA gripframe. I want to keep it in house but ONE outside process might not be too bad...........Damn You!
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aciera
.375 Atomic
Posts: 2,071
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Post by aciera on Jun 18, 2010 15:08:45 GMT -5
I have gone down this road over a year and a half ago as I have stated in other posts. Only I was more interested in the #5 frame and then was going to move into other products. I too am in the investment casting world working as an investment casting development engineer. Maybe aciera & I work for the same foundry just different locations. I was ready to do it until the economy really hit the skids and have been a lot more tight with my available cash. Have younger kids and a mortgage that are more important than starting another small business to consume my limited spare time. Good luck to you as I think that there a market, but as stated several times by others it is small. I may take another run at it myself in the future too, who knows. Don D. Then you know the balance of what to cast and what to machine, and at what cost. One size never fits all, very well anyway. I'll keep you posted.
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gunzo
.30 Stingray
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Post by gunzo on Jun 18, 2010 16:25:42 GMT -5
Put me down for 1 aluminum Bisley grip frame or when the price is established maybe 3. Ti sounds very interesting but probably out of reach price wise for me. The last titainiun I purchased was pretty durn expensive & that was 3-4 years ago. Hate to think of the current cost.
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Post by kings6 on Jun 18, 2010 17:45:09 GMT -5
Just a couple of thoughts for input. Number one, Ron Powers still has #5 frames in stock from his first run. He mentioned to me if there isn't more interest and sales, it may be the only run. Number two, pertaining to the bisley, aluminum would probably be great on loads from 44 Mag on down. I believe Gary Reeder mentioned in a conversation that he tried some bisley frames in aluminum and they would not stand up to the 475/500 type loads. All that said, I jumped on three brass bisley frames when I had the chance and would definitly look at a titanium bisley if one was available but economies of scale for the potential market seems like it would be a tough one. But hey. one off type stuff is what the customer revolver guy dreams of! ;D
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Fowler
.401 Bobcat
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Post by Fowler on Jun 18, 2010 19:00:57 GMT -5
If you can make this work go for it, you have the right attitude towards profitability of the project. I think the material cost difference if done right will not be that great. Yea Titanium run $65-$75 a pound and Aluminum is $2-$3 but a grip frame weighs a few ounces and most of the cost will be in workmanship.
I would love a 2 tone Bisley with a Ti grip frame left in the raw color...
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Post by sugarriver on Jun 18, 2010 22:06:46 GMT -5
I'd be interested in a lightweight Bisley, whether Ti or Al. Since we're casting, how about a copy of the FA 97 GF made to fit on a Ruger? Pete Damn it Pete; Since you said that I keep wondering if it is possible! Luckily I don't have a FA gripframe. I want to keep it in house but ONE outside process might not be too bad...........Damn You! Sorry 'bout that! Wouldn't be the first time I threw a wrench in the works. Pete
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