Striker fired semis...

[rjm52]

The SA Uberti thread on safe carry had drifted enough so I thought throw this out here...

There has been hundreds if not thousands of unintentional discharges using striker fired guns as in those with the same trigger deactivated safety pioneered by Gaston Glock...

Glock was not a gunfighter and I doubt he was even much of a shooter prior prior to him inventing the system to win the Austrian Army handgun contact. Of course being simple, rugged and easy to shoot it was rapidly adopted all over the world and of course in American Law Enforcement and civilian self-defense...

Am not sure how to prove this but my bet is that Glock did not intend for the gun to be carried with a round in the chamber. Being designed for the European armies and police I would like to know in what condition they carry their guns...loaded or unloaded chamber. Anyone know?

I downloaded a copy of the Austrian Army Glock Handgun Manual but unfortunately it isn't in English so don't know how they carry the gun...

Anyone who has done any firearms instruction knows that one of the hardest things to do is to have ones student keep their finger off the trigger unless/until pointed at the target. You see it all the time on YouTube videos even with "experienced" shooters.

I was in LE from 1970 to the early 2000s and you never heard of unintentionals with revolves or DA semis... Since the striker fired guns came in they are in the news all the time...you see them on YouTube all the time...

And how about the original Glock box with the cone shaped decocker in the middle with the big letters on the top of the box "DO NOT PLACE LOADED FIREARM IN THIS BOX"...yet there were lots of boxes with holes in the side some involving injury or death...

...your thoughts?

Bob

[sharps4590]

You can't fix stupid.

[Encore64]

I'll second that. Education is the key...

[nicholst55]

Education, training, and experience.

[contender]

Interesting question.

When the striker fired Glocks and their trigger safety came around,, I was not impressed. While the guns are good, solid dependable shooters,, the safety aspect has always bothered me. While I may have purchased or won a few Glocks over the years,, I've never kept one.
And yes,, I do now own a few of the striker fired types of semi's,, but I'm always very careful in handling any of them. I do like a few that have the additional manual safety though.

All in all,, while the basic design may be just fine,, it's the human factor that has created the biggest problems.

Might be why I still prefer a good old fashioned revolver.

But I too would like to know the actual written policy of a few of these foreign LEO departments on how they carry a handgun.

[revolvercranker]

First with all the things available on the internet if you can put up that Glock manual on the internet you can copy paste it into converter German to English online if you really want to know.

Name an early striker fired pistol? The P 08 Luger. Very freaking unsafe pistol, but not because it was striker fired, but because it was very easy to press the sear bar on the left side of pistol when the safety is off.

Most of the unintentional firings I hear of with Glocks are when a LEO is pulling the pistol out of the holster and he has his finger in the trigger guard or on the trigger. I believe this is why they came up with the New York Trigger on the Glocks.

Glock made a huge impact on the gun world, just about every copied them or their trigger. Even rifles have a similar trigger, not for safety, but to lighten the trigger pull. Yes Glock made a huge impact. He's passed on now you know. Another thing you didn't mention is he was anti-gun. Interesting huh?

[rjm52]

"Glock made a huge impact on the gun world, just about every copied them or their trigger. Even rifles have a similar trigger, not for safety, but to lighten the trigger pull. Yes Glock made a huge impact. He's passed on now you know. Another thing you didn't mention is he was anti-gun. Interesting huh?"

...hummmmm...I didn't know that...but that explains everything...he invented a "system" to kill us all off one at a time...

[bigbrowndog]

Cannot speak to today’s US military but back in the 80’s, semis were not carried by basic uniformed authorities with a hot chamber. I was still teaching revolvers when I got out from the USAF, so no issue there with a hot chamber.

Trapr

[bradshaw]

The Glock is a brilliant piece of engineering and the most radical departure from John Browning while continuing his basic enclosed barrel, tilt-lock delayed blowback concept. The recoil spring will either be alongside the barrel, behind it, or under the barrel as Browning designed. (The toggle spring for Georg Luger’s pistol is in the grip.)

Perhaps it’s no irony that Luger and Glock were Austrian.

Of the striker-fired pistols I’ve shot, I prefer the Glock. As noted, to carry a Glock in the pocket with chamber charged is to tempt Murphy’s Law. My major gripes include looseness of the chamber, with a feed ramp which may overlap the web-thickness of the case. Glock configured his chambers for utmost feeding. Colt on it's 1911 National Match and guys like Kart achieved reliability beyond argument with SWC and JHP ammo without a loose chamber, and accuracy without unnecessarily tightening the chamber. And the early Delta Elites shows Colt knows how to do it when it wants to.

My main apprehension comes from the Glock trigger, and its copies, under winter conditions. Where, should you have your gun out for any length of time, gloves are mandatory. Under this adversity, the glove inclines to press the trigger----without depressing the safety tab----which blocks the trigger. As for a swinging trigger design probably to evade Glock’s patent, I saw one at the range in Louisiana fall off.

Amazing things happen in extreme cold, such as body-extremity numbness. Temperature undulations this winter have had me shooting well below freezing. Aerial water jugs, or ice jugs, don’t wait for you to get your finger right before they fall to earth.

A moving target requires the sights to come to the eye. To hunt for the sights puts you off-target. This throws off trigger timing. All marksmanship is work, leastwise for this shooter. If you ain’t on it, you ain’t gonna get on it.
Another vote for shooting from the ground up. Stance, balance, alignment. The rest of the coordinations follow. The last thing you want is a trigger that don’t pull.
David Bradshaw

[AxeHandle]

Personally like the Glock for what it is, a soulless tool. From what I've seen the Glock striker is not quite the same as the others. The Glock is not fully cocked until you press the lock in the middle of the trigger and then pull the trigger to the rear a significant distance. Some of the new aftermarket triggers for Glocks ARE fully cocked when the slide is racked. FWIW I have seen the striker on a modified Glock snag the crucifix on the slide's way forward and the gun fire again without another trigger pull.

I have been known to carry a Glock. Then I carry DAO revolvers too. I actually recommend to aspiring Glock shooters that they acquire a DOA revolver and learn how to run a DA trigger.

[revolvercranker]

Feb 24, 2024 15:16:31 GMT -5 AxeHandle said:

Personally like the Glock for what it is, a soulless tool. From what I've seen the Glock striker is not quite the same as the others. The Glock is not fully cocked until you press the lock in the middle of the trigger and then pull the trigger to the rear a significant distance. Some of the new aftermarket triggers for Glocks ARE fully cocked when the slide is racked. FWIW I have seen the striker on a modified Glock snag the crucifix on the slide's way forward and the gun fire again without another trigger pull.

I have been known to carry a Glock. Then I carry DAO revolvers too. I actually recommend to aspiring Glock shooters that they acquire a DOA revolver and learn how to run a DA trigger.

I have a few Glocks.  I got a first gen Glock 21 45acp that will run neck to neck with a Colt Gold Cup and I haven't done anything to it.  I also have some aftermarket triggers in them and they aren't fully cock and they lower the pull to where those that criticize the Glocks trigger would be amazed.  I'm not keen on polymer frames though. 

[gnappi]

No Glock here, I've had a few but they didn't point naturally for me. The S&W M&P OTOH does point just like my 1911 and the thumb safety fits my longtime use of the 1911's manual of arms, AND it's a .40!

[nicholst55]

I own and carry Glocks. The OEM Glock trigger is acceptably safe, as long as you keep your booger-picker off the bang switch until you're ready to shoot! Modifying the trigger in any manner can negate the factory's built-in safety. Many Glock owners very strongly advise against installing either aftermarket triggers or parts thereof - at least on duty or carry guns.

[revolvercranker]

Feb 24, 2024 18:13:20 GMT -5 nicholst55 said:

I own and carry Glocks. The OEM Glock trigger is acceptably safe, as long as you keep your booger-picker off the bang switch until you're ready to shoot! Modifying the trigger in any manner can negate the factory's built-in safety. Many Glock owners very strongly advise against installing either aftermarket triggers or parts thereof - at least on duty or carry guns.

Yeah on duty or carry guns I agree. Nothing wrong with it for plinking and hunting.  Tell me how much difference is there in a tuned 1911 with a 3 pound trigger and a Glock with an aftermarkert trigger?  Also most after market triggers do not negate the safety, they only make the trigger pull lighter.  Now let explain the trigger on a Glock.  The trigger cannot trip the sear unless that safety blade in the center of the trigger is depressed all the way.  You can test that with an empty pistol by trying to press the trigger back by it's very edge.  None of my glocks are unsafe. 

[bigbore5]

I trained with some of the European ct units. The standard is a loaded chamber in the Glock. As to regular troops or le agencies, I can not say.

I will say that all of them that tried our mk23mod0 wanted to trade.