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Post by singleaction on Jan 30, 2024 12:43:18 GMT -5
I’m having custom Blackhawk made up with a long cylinder and a 5” barrel. The front of the frame is being relieved a few hundredths of an inch to accommodate extra cylinder length. In my mind, I think of a 5” barrel as extending about .375” past the standard ERH. In this case, actual barrel length, when measured from the back of the barrel, will be a good bit less than 5”. A long steel ERH will be used for the build, and trimmed to be full length with the barrel. While I know I can have done whatever I want, and there isnt’t necessarily a “should”, what procedure is generally considered customary in this case? Thank you for your opinion.
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Post by kings6 on Jan 30, 2024 13:12:05 GMT -5
Have the barrel made to fit your long ejector rod.
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Post by singleaction on Jan 30, 2024 13:22:53 GMT -5
Have the barrel made to fit your long ejector rod. Thank you for your input. Are you stating your preference, or are you stating what you believe to be how this is typically done. FYI, my long ERH would normally be even with the end of a 5.5” barrel. |
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Post by bradshaw on Jan 30, 2024 13:26:07 GMT -5
I’m having custom Blackhawk made up with a long cylinder and a 5” barrel. The front of the frame is being relieved a few hundredths of an inch to accommodate extra cylinder length. In my mind, I think of a 5” barrel as extending about .375” past the standard ERH. In this case, actual barrel length, when measured from the back of the barrel, will be a good bit less than 5”. A long steel ERH will be used for the build, and trimmed to be full length with the barrel. While I know I can have done whatever I want, and there isnt’t necessarily a “should”, what procedure is generally considered customary in this case. Thank you for your opinion. ***** Whomever does the work needs to know what he or she is doing. A 5-1/2” barrel has room for the Maximum ejector assembly. Ruger Maximum ejectors are 1” longer than the standard ejector, which doesn’t completely extract mag length brass----1.285”: .45 Colt, .357, .41, .44. The Maximum ejector completely extracts the 1.605” Maximum case. When building the Ruger 03, Ruger shortened a stainless Maximum ejector assembly 1/4-inch, which clears mag length brass. However long the cylinder, I would leave room for a HUB, a.k.a. gas ring. To hog out .300” from the front of the cylinder window leaves about .050” meat at the bottom of the front strap, a pitiful appearance and pitifully weak. David Bradshaw |
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Post by kings6 on Jan 30, 2024 13:39:27 GMT -5
Just my preference from an aesthetic stand point. If I am going to use a long ERH then I prefer it to match the length of the barrel as much as possible. When you say long cylinder are you talking about either trimming back a rebored 357 maximum cylinder or having a custom cylinder made to just fit the existing frame window or are you talking about an oversized length cylinder requiring opening up the frame window?
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Post by singleaction on Jan 30, 2024 13:55:50 GMT -5
Just my preference from an aesthetic stand point. If I am going to use a long ERH then I prefer it to match the length of the barrel as much as possible. When you say long cylinder are you talking about either trimming back a rebored 357 maximum cylinder or having a custom cylinder made to just fit the existing frame window or are you talking about an oversized length cylinder requiring opening up the frame window? The latter. |
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Post by singleaction on Jan 30, 2024 14:04:38 GMT -5
I’m having custom Blackhawk made up with a long cylinder and a 5” barrel. The front of the frame is being relieved a few hundredths of an inch to accommodate extra cylinder length. In my mind, I think of a 5” barrel as extending about .375” past the standard ERH. In this case, actual barrel length, when measured from the back of the barrel, will be a good bit less than 5”. A long steel ERH will be used for the build, and trimmed to be full length with the barrel. While I know I can have done whatever I want, and there isnt’t necessarily a “should”, what procedure is generally considered customary in this case. Thank you for your opinion. ***** Whomever does the work needs to know what he or she is doing. A 5-1/2” barrel has room for the Maximum ejector assembly. Ruger Maximum ejectors are 1” longer than the standard ejector, which doesn’t completely extract mag length brass----1.285”: .45 Colt, .357, .41, .44. The Maximum ejector completely extracts the 1.605” Maximum case. When building the Ruger 03, Ruger shortened a stainless Maximum ejector assembly 1/4-inch, which clears mag length brass. However long the cylinder, I would leave room for a HUB, a.k.a. gas ring. To hog out .300” from the front of the cylinder window leaves about .050” meat at the bottom of the front strap, a pitiful appearance and pitifully weak. David Bradshaw Thank you for your comments. I, nor my gunmaker, are NOT considering taking out .300”. That would be foolish, indeed. The Ejector length I’m leaning toward is .375” longer than standard. |
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edk
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,107
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Post by edk on Jan 30, 2024 14:15:51 GMT -5
However long the cylinder, I would leave room for a HUB, a.k.a. gas ring. Does it do anything besides help to maintain cylinder gap? Why not have the barrel tenon almost fully within the cylinder frame and the hub/gas ring fairly minimal? |
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Odin
.327 Meteor
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Post by Odin on Jan 30, 2024 14:39:47 GMT -5
So, what are you having built? I'm all for wildcats and such, and long seating of bullets seems an interesting path, but every time I've done the math I end up with 454,475,512 and then my calculator flashes "MAXIMUM!!"
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Odin
.327 Meteor
Posts: 971
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Post by Odin on Jan 30, 2024 14:43:34 GMT -5
However long the cylinder, I would leave room for a HUB, a.k.a. gas ring. Does it do anything besides help to maintain cylinder gap? Why not have the barrel tenon almost fully within the cylinder frame and the hub/gas ring fairly minimal? Seems to me without a gas ring, the entire face of the cylinder would ride against the front of the cylinder window. I can imagine a number of... results. None of them good. |
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Post by bradshaw on Jan 30, 2024 14:52:27 GMT -5
However long the cylinder, I would leave room for a HUB, a.k.a. gas ring. Does it do anything besides help to maintain cylinder gap? Why not have the barrel tenon almost fully within the cylinder frame and the hub/gas ring fairly minimal? ***** Hub on CYLINDER FACE deflects gas at its hottest, and fowling, from BASE PIN. David Bradshaw |
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Post by singleaction on Jan 30, 2024 19:55:45 GMT -5
Some rabbit holes got explored, but my original question still basically remains unanswered.
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Post by bushog on Jan 30, 2024 21:27:10 GMT -5
Have the barrel made to fit your long ejector rod. Thank you for your input. Are you stating your preference, or are you stating what you believe to be how this is typically done. FYI, my long ERH would normally be even with the end of a 5.5” barrel. Both IMO I think most shorten the cylinder just a tad instead of opening up the frame length. At least that’s what Bowen, Clements and Horvath have done on mine. |
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Post by mike454 on Jan 30, 2024 22:37:22 GMT -5
I'm not sure I'm following correctly. If you've speced a 5" barrel, it should be 5" from the back of the barrel to the muzzle. It should not be "a good bit less than 5”" Probably half of the very few customs I've seen with a 5" barrel have a full length ERH to the end of the muzzle. If I'm missing your question let me know.
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Post by potatojudge on Jan 30, 2024 23:05:36 GMT -5
Tell your gunsmith you'd like the barrel length to handle like a 5 inch factory cylinder gun would handle and let them do the math. Shouldn't take but a minute once they know the cylinder length and barrel tenon length.
If you want a true 5 inch barrel, then ask for 5. Or 5.25, or 5.5, or 5.01673. It's your custom and no extra work to trim a barrel to an exact specified length.
I've asked the same question about the gas ring and that's the answer, the offset protects the local anatomy. Plus, you'd need the front of the frame window to be perfectly perpendicular to the base pin axis without a gas ring, which is an unnecessary step typically. It doesn't have to be much of a gas ring though- that is it can be so short that it doesn't change the aesthetics measurably vs having a gas ring.
I do agree with Bradshaw, don't open the frame 3/10 of an inch! 3 thou I imagine will be just fine. I haven't seen destruction tests thinning that portion of the frame, but IMO and from what I've heard it gets ugly before it gets weak.
This all reminds me of BFR and their wonky barrel measuring system.
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