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Post by singleaction on Jan 30, 2024 23:45:08 GMT -5
Thank you for your input. Are you stating your preference, or are you stating what you believe to be how this is typically done. FYI, my long ERH would normally be even with the end of a 5.5” barrel. Both IMO I think most shorten the cylinder just a tad instead of opening up the frame length. At least that’s what Bowen, Clements and Horvath have done on mine. I understand that frame windows are typically not opened up to the front, but longer than standard cylinders are often installed. If, for example, one were to have a maximum cylinder shortened to fit full length in a standard Blackhawk frame and a 4 5/8” barrel was requested, would the barrel be cut so the muzzle is even in length with a standard ERH, or would the barrel extend beyond the ERH an amount equal to the length that the new cylinder is longer than the standard length cylinder? Another angle to consider is the fact that large frame NM 357 Magnum cylinders are shorter than 44 mag and 45 Colt cylinders. The 357 mag barrel tenons are longer than those on 44 mag and 45 Colt barrels, yet Ruger does not account for this in there barrel length descriptions.
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Post by singleaction on Jan 31, 2024 0:00:23 GMT -5
Tell your gunsmith you'd like the barrel length to handle like a 5 inch factory cylinder gun would handle and let them do the math. Shouldn't take but a minute once they know the cylinder length and barrel tenon length. If you want a true 5 inch barrel, then ask for 5. Or 5.25, or 5.5, or 5.01673. It's your custom and no extra work to trim a barrel to an exact specified length. I've asked the same question about the gas ring and that's the answer, the offset protects the local anatomy. Plus, you'd need the front of the frame window to be perfectly perpendicular to the base pin axis without a gas ring, which is an unnecessary step typically. It doesn't have to be much of a gas ring though- that is it can be so short that it doesn't change the aesthetics measurably vs having a gas ring. I do agree with Bradshaw, don't open the frame 3/10 of an inch! 3 thou I imagine will be just fine. I haven't seen destruction tests thinning that portion of the frame, but IMO and from what I've heard it gets ugly before it gets weak. This all reminds me of BFR and their wonky barrel measuring system. I will be having the barrel cut as if for a 5” factory gun, as you recommend. That was my original intent, but I initially confused my maker by not specifying in that way. I think you are the first person on this thread that might understand my question. I’m just not a very good communicator. Thanks I don’t know where you and Bradshaw are getting the .300” dimension. I never said that.
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Post by potatojudge on Jan 31, 2024 0:43:59 GMT -5
Tell your gunsmith you'd like the barrel length to handle like a 5 inch factory cylinder gun would handle and let them do the math. Shouldn't take but a minute once they know the cylinder length and barrel tenon length. If you want a true 5 inch barrel, then ask for 5. Or 5.25, or 5.5, or 5.01673. It's your custom and no extra work to trim a barrel to an exact specified length. I've asked the same question about the gas ring and that's the answer, the offset protects the local anatomy. Plus, you'd need the front of the frame window to be perfectly perpendicular to the base pin axis without a gas ring, which is an unnecessary step typically. It doesn't have to be much of a gas ring though- that is it can be so short that it doesn't change the aesthetics measurably vs having a gas ring. I do agree with Bradshaw, don't open the frame 3/10 of an inch! 3 thou I imagine will be just fine. I haven't seen destruction tests thinning that portion of the frame, but IMO and from what I've heard it gets ugly before it gets weak. This all reminds me of BFR and their wonky barrel measuring system. I will be having the barrel cut as if for a 5” factory gun, as you recommend. That was my original intent, but I initially confused my maker by not specifying in that way. I think you are the first person on this thread that might understand my question. I’m just not a very good communicator. Thanks I don’t know where you and Bradshaw are getting the .300” dimension. I never said that. Oh that’s easy. I think David conflated .375 with your frame window work because you verbally said a few thousandths but then gave a number for something else in the text. Easy enough for any of us to do. Then I made a joke agreeing with David about the 3/10 and agreeing with you about the 3/1000, since both are correct lol.
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Odin
.327 Meteor
Posts: 971
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Post by Odin on Jan 31, 2024 7:25:06 GMT -5
Both IMO I think most shorten the cylinder just a tad instead of opening up the frame length. At least that’s what Bowen, Clements and Horvath have done on mine. I understand that frame windows are typically not opened up to the front, but longer than standard cylinders are often installed. If, for example, one were to have a maximum cylinder shortened to fit full length in a standard Blackhawk frame and a 4 5/8” barrel was requested, would the barrel be cut so the muzzle is even in length with a standard ERH, or would the barrel extend beyond the ERH an amount equal to the length that the new cylinder is longer than the standard length cylinder? Another angle to consider is the fact that large frame NM 357 Magnum cylinders are shorter than 44 mag and 45 Colt cylinders. The 357 mag barrel tenons are longer than those on 44 mag and 45 Colt barrels, yet Ruger does not account for this in there barrel length descriptions. Unless I am mistaken, barrel length is measured from the front of the cylinder window, NOT the front of the cylinder. The portion of the barrel tenon sticking into the window is not part of the measurement. This is how manufacturers achieved standardization in nomenclature and aesthetics. There is no correlation between cylinder window dimensions and barrel length. The only reason to trim the front of the window is because your chosen cartridge won't fit any other way. In my estimation, thinning the yoke (weakening it) to fit a 500 Special into medium frame New Model Flattop is unnecessary at best. The word that keeps popping into my head is reckless, but I suppose your chosen builder knows what they're doing and knows why it needs to be done.
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Post by bigbore5 on Jan 31, 2024 16:45:02 GMT -5
I believe he's talking about opening the cylinder window for a larger diameter and trimming the cylinder for a maximum length with minimal barrel protrusion.
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Post by bushog on Jan 31, 2024 21:14:23 GMT -5
Both IMO I think most shorten the cylinder just a tad instead of opening up the frame length. At least that’s what Bowen, Clements and Horvath have done on mine. I understand that frame windows are typically not opened up to the front, but longer than standard cylinders are often installed. If, for example, one were to have a maximum cylinder shortened to fit full length in a standard Blackhawk frame and a 4 5/8” barrel was requested, would the barrel be cut so the muzzle is even in length with a standard ERH, or would the barrel extend beyond the ERH an amount equal to the length that the new cylinder is longer than the standard length cylinder? Another angle to consider is the fact that large frame NM 357 Magnum cylinders are shorter than 44 mag and 45 Colt cylinders. The 357 mag barrel tenons are longer than those on 44 mag and 45 Colt barrels, yet Ruger does not account for this in there barrel length descriptions. Here are some with long (.357 max) cylinders installed. Maybe this will help you visualize. All have recesses for the case heads. Looks like Andy cut the .41 cylinder a little shorter. No explanation as to why... 5 1/2" .45 Colt with long ERH 4 5/8" .45 Colt by Clements 4 5/8" .41 maggie by Horvath
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Post by singleaction on Jan 31, 2024 23:14:16 GMT -5
I understand that frame windows are typically not opened up to the front, but longer than standard cylinders are often installed. If, for example, one were to have a maximum cylinder shortened to fit full length in a standard Blackhawk frame and a 4 5/8” barrel was requested, would the barrel be cut so the muzzle is even in length with a standard ERH, or would the barrel extend beyond the ERH an amount equal to the length that the new cylinder is longer than the standard length cylinder? Another angle to consider is the fact that large frame NM 357 Magnum cylinders are shorter than 44 mag and 45 Colt cylinders. The 357 mag barrel tenons are longer than those on 44 mag and 45 Colt barrels, yet Ruger does not account for this in there barrel length descriptions. Here are some with long (.357 max) cylinders installed. Maybe this will help you visualize. All have recesses for the case heads. Looks like Andy cut the .41 cylinder a little shorter. No explanation as to why... 5 1/2" .45 Colt with long ERH 4 5/8" .45 Colt by Clements 4 5/8" .41 maggie by Horvath Thanks! Those are all truly lovely!
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Post by lar4570 on Feb 19, 2024 22:51:28 GMT -5
I talked with an older gentleman at a Linebaugh shoot some years back that built a 405 Winchester on a BFR. He had to open up the front of the frame a little bit as the standard length for the 405 is longer than 3". I think it was Tony from Grizzly Machine???
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