1911 reliability

[bradshaw]

Ran as a teenager a Colt Model 1911 made in 1917 with diet exclusively GI Hardball. Never failed to feed. Including beaucoup 2 cents a shot 1943 head stamp steel case Ball. That was the year of steel pennies. John Moses Browning didn't conceive them days feeding semi-wadcutters and hollow points. My World War I baby caught nothin but hardball from me. I’m sure it would have balked at modern ammo. God knows what nightmares that pistol may have lived, all I gave it was killing some animals. No need for exotic magazines, as the tapered foil-lip WW I loaders worked perfect. The WW I canvas pouch dated by manufacturer on back had two snaps; The WW II pouch, probably not dated on back, had one snap. These pouches, either World War I or II, are the best for adversity of any yet conceived. Meanwhile the Colt 1911 built in 1917 fed ball ammunition could not be stopped.

They are not the best for a 1911 not made right. Nor for modern big bite ammunition. Feed ramp on John Browning’s World War One’s Colt flutes a baby’s fingernail; lousy arrangement for Hollow Point or Semi Wad Cutter. Stuff one of these prehistoric magazines with modern bullets, ram it up the shute of a Les Baer Super Tac... Rack slide... slurp. Similar effect from Kimber first generation 1911 Gold Match. Those guns feed from anything. Not so, numerous other 1911’s fed bite-mouth ammunition. These guns behave with Les Baer and Bill Wilson magazines. Magazines with the cricket-type follower come up short----very short.

Twenty or thirty years ago I asked my friend Ben “Bear Man” Kilham about making a 1911. “Some people know how to make parts but they don’t know how to put them together,” said Ben.

As for Mec-Gar, I stopped SIG/Sauer in New Hampshire some years ago for some magazines. Asking, what mag works if yours are not available? “Mec-Gar. They make ours. Just won’t have our stamp. We don’t advise any others.”
David Bradshaw

[x101airborne]

As a devout follower of the 1911 (and carrying a 1911-A1 loaded with hardball right now) I appreciate the history. My Tisas came with Mec-Gar mags.

[Quick Draw McGraw]

I've had a lot of people tell me Mec-Gar 1911 mags are great. My experience has been different. My best experiences are with Wilson Combat 47D, the 7rd Springfield Armory, and the Ed Brown 8rd mags.

I appreciate learning about your 1917 WWI 1911, Mr. Bradshaw. I hope you still have the gun as it sounds pretty flippin' cool!

[sixshot]

One day a group of us was at the base firing range trying to qualify with some old M1 carbines, all of the M16's had been shipped off to Viet Nam so we didn't get to shoot them a second time around. I was holding pretty steady & the range office came down the line & said, solider I think it's about time you started hitting that target. I thought I was hitting it but couldn't tell because of the distance. He told me to burn off a few rounds while he watched. I don't know how many I fired but he stopped me & told me to hold somewhere off the target.
I did, and then he told me to hold that same spot & run more, I can't remember how many. Pretty soon he returned with another M1 carbine & said, here, try this one. I shot 5-10 shots, can't remember. He said where did you learn to shoot, and I said back home in Idaho but I had never shot an M1 Carbine. He said, have you ever shot a 1911 45 & I said not, I had never seen one. This was 1966 in Sherman, Texas. He said can you come back Saturday, we're going to be doing a little friendly shooting, and I said sure. I didn't make it because we only had one old Volkswagen beetle & my wife needed it for her job so I couldn't make the "fun" shoot.
I ran into him later & ask if I could make it another time & when I did he gave me a wooden box with a door on each side of it with a hardball 1911, a wadcutter 1911 & a rimfire 22 S&W model 41 & some cleaning equipment. I had never cleaned a gun before..... The guns were tuned up by a base armorer & even though they were old they were in great shape & as soon as I started shooting them I loved it.
After a few weeks he would check out the wadcutter gun to me on a weekend with a full 50 round box of 185 gr wadcutters & I would go shoot bullfrogs, turtles & armadillos with ammo that cost $5 a box. That was expensive ammo in 1966!
Also he would have me put a piece of felt between the frame & hammer & dry fire (one handed) at the TV set. I shot Matt Dillon over 1,000 times & beat him every time. John Wayne was even slower. I eventually got my own 1911 45 & enjoyed it for many years, packing it in a Safariland shoulder rig. The brand of magazine didn't seem to matter as long as it was hardball or a cast clone of the old hardball. I always had 6-7 mags that were dependable & I just carried in my vest pockets. What I miss the most is the Texas turtles! What I don't miss is those Texas snakes! All the shooting back then was one handed, I guess it was the macho thing to do at the time.

Dick

[bradshaw]

Just tried a few 1911 magazines in an early Kimber Gold Match and a Les Baer Super Tac, two super reliable pistols.

Kimber Gold Match and Les Baer Super Tac
1) GI WW II magazine: tapered feed lips, flat follower:
* Speer 200 JHP “Flying Ashtray"----smooth, no hangups.
* Fired case from Ruger 03 revolver----no feed, 6 o’clock hangup.

2) Les Baer magazine: stepped feed lips, concave follower:
* Speer 200 JHP “Flying Ashtray”----slick, no hangups.
* Fired case from Ruger 03 revolver----chambers from mag.

3) Mec-Gar magazine sold by Pachmayr: stepped feed lips, flat follower:
* Speer 200 JHP “Flying Ashtray”----slick, no hangups.
* Fired case from Ruger 03 revolver----no feed, 6 o’clock hangups.

4) Wilson-Rigers magazine: stepped feed lips, concave follower:
* Speer 200 JHP “Flying Ashtray”----slick, no hangups.
* Fired case from Ruger 03 revolver----chambers from mag.

Brief firing and feeding sessions repeats range experience. Seems the concave (fluted) follower of Les Baer and Wilson-Rigers magazines provide the key to feeding empties from the magazine. A more complete test could involve placing the Les Baer or Wilson-Rogers concave follower in magazine with the original pattern tapered feed lips.
David Bradshaw

[sixshot]

Here's my blued Kimber Gold Match, it seems, to shoot any of the 10 or so different mags, including some old GI mags that I have with cast powder coated ball ammo, 210 gr SWC HP's, & 230 gr TC cast.




Dick

[Burnston]

I switched to a 1911 during an extensive experimental stage after a running/mounted gunfight with an especially aggressive steer when my .44spl failed to put him down in a suitable timetable. It was/is the polished blue version of Cimarron's 1917 repo model, which I chose because of its ultra low price-tag, and its reputed ability to withstand the rigors of the ultra-aggressive cowboy action crowd. Being unconvinced that the 1911 was going to be my platform of choice for ranch work, I only spent $400 on the pistol, another $200 in Mec-Gar 7rnd magazines (I wanted the base flush with the grip), and more than I will admit on practice ammo. Unfortunately I am a bit too dense to reload .45acp and still struggle with it, as Mr. Thompson can attest. This particular pistol shined with Hornady 230gr XTP, which I was not thrilled with, yet could not argue with the 50-75 yard results. Surprisingly, performance with standard 230gr ball ammo was unremarkable at best, and simply unreliable at worst, though never did I experience a misfeed or stovepipe of any kind. Function-wise, this $400 Cimarron was unsurpassed within my limited scope.
After roughly 2k rounds on the ground from various distances and stances, I began carrying it for my day to day on the ranch. Long story short, I quit carrying it because my first string work Hancock could not get used to the report. Having shot revolvers of all calibers on this horse, he could not abide the report of the 1911, and often after firing one shot I was faced with the nerve wracking task of bringing a horse under control while holding a ready-to-fire pistol in my hand. This was regrettable, as it's packability was remarkable, and certainly had its perks when it came time to reload, not to mention the platform's overall reliability. Though hogs, several coyote, and innumerable armadillo and crows were taken, I never took an angry steer with it, leaving the question that started the entire experiment maddeningly unanswered. 

[ebg3]

Great looking rig Burnston. Looks like a well thought out holster, sits high and tight.

[sixshot]

I agree, not sure who made that 1911 rig but it looks like a dandy. Did you make that Ben?

Dick

[webber]

I think that is a good looking holster. I just wonder with it sitting that high how it is getting it out if the holster when seated. Especially in a vehicle with bucket seats.
I carry everyday. And carry a Glock 21 somedays and a 5 inch 1911 somedays.
With that holster that high off the seat I bet it would be the devil to pull it out while seated in bucket seats.
Just like people that carry at 3:30 position and then ride in bucket seats. The gun is pressed hard into the curve of the seat back. Even a compact can give problems.
I know, I know, I know lean up and over. I practice, WITH AND UNLOADED, gun seated in my vehicle, sitting on the couch, in a chair etc. to see potential problems with the "presentation" of the firearm in a variety of situations.

[Burnston]

Jan 24, 2024 1:33:30 GMT -5 sixshot said:

I agree, not sure who made that 1911 rig but it looks like a dandy. Did you make that Ben?

Dick

Thanks for the compliment. I did make it, after thoroughly examining some of Barranti's work. Obviously no where near the quality, I incorporated his design of the Longhorn companion as best I could, with one small change. I did not care for my tension strap and my hammer thong being one in the same so I mechanically attached the tension strap and sewed a welt inside the holster, so the pistol is under constant tension as well. 

[Burnston]

Jan 24, 2024 8:22:29 GMT -5 webber said:

I think that is a good looking holster. I just wonder with it sitting that high how it is getting it out if the holster when seated. Especially in a vehicle with bucket seats.
I carry everyday. And carry a Glock 21 somedays and a 5 inch 1911 somedays.
With that holster that high off the seat I bet it would be the devil to pull it out while seated in bucket seats.
Just like people that carry at 3:30 position and then ride in bucket seats. The gun is pressed hard into the curve of the seat back. Even a compact can give problems.
I know, I know, I know lean up and over. I practice, WITH AND UNLOADED, gun seated in my vehicle, sitting on the couch, in a chair etc. to see potential problems with the "presentation" of the firearm in a variety of situations.

Your concern is a valid one. That said, on horseback or in a feed truck, speed is not nearly as important as being out of the way. It then becomes a balancing game; accessibility verses freedom of movement. This high and tight rig is a compromise of the two. I am no fast draw artist, but I swing a rope and catch things that do not want caught every day. Therefore, being accessible but out of the way is imperative; this rig worked out to be a fairly good compromise of the two. I employed the same thing with a Colt SA .44spl, though I employed the hammer thong instead of a tension welt. 

[webber]

I can understand what you are saying. I worked quite a bit on a farm in my younger years.
Now I dont. I sit in the couch. I drive a vehicle with bucket seats and sit in chairs.
Even with a shorter gun and a 3:00 position accessing a gun can be difficult at times in a vehicle and such.

[markwell]

Back before Bill Wilson had a 9mm magazine in his lineup he recommended Mec-Gar mags for 9mm 1911s. Bought a bunch in1991 for my LAV custom Colt in 9mm. Had to tune the followers to hold the slide back on the last shot but after that they have run 100% ever since.

[revolvercranker]

In my 1911's I like Chip McCormick magazines, that is in 45acp. In 9mm, 38 Super, and 30 Luger in my 1911's I like Mec-Gars All my 45 1911's feed empty cases reliably. One of the worse magazines I had for a 9mm 1911 was a Wilson. Couldn't get it to run right. It was a upper line one too. I threw it away.