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Post by parallaxbill on Jan 18, 2024 14:39:31 GMT -5
My 4" blued Security Six has had a peculiar issue ever since I purchased it several years ago. I can dry fire it all day long and it (the action) works perfectly. But if I fire it the action locks up and the cylinder will not rotate, the hammer will not cock and the trigger will not function. To free it up I must pull the trigger back slightly while rotating the cylinder with my other hand and sometimes it frees up and returns to normal for a shot or two before locking up again.
Now this is in no way my first Ruger double action revolver but this one is giving me fits. Any ideas or has anyone experienced this with this particular Ruger action? I'm all ears....so to speak.
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jeffh
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Posts: 1,606
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Post by jeffh on Jan 18, 2024 18:53:09 GMT -5
First stab in the dark is: are the case heads dragging on something? Do you have sufficient headspace? Are there any rough spots on the breech-face/front surface of the recoil shield? Is there a firing pin bushing (I don't remember), and is it proud of the breech-face? Check end-shake on the cylinder.
I'm assuming this is in DA mode?
What all happens when you pull the trigger on a Ruger Security Six? The trigger moves; The hammer moves; The transfer bar moves; The pawl moves; The pawl moves the cylinder; The cylinder latch/bolt moves. Observe this function closely while working the action in slow-motion and note whether the cylinder tries to rotate before the latch/bolt drops.
The above does not really happen differently if there are cartridges in the cylinder or not though, so what's different, or will act differently when it has empty chambers v. loaded chambers?
With loaded chambers, the cylinder has less room to move rearward and may even be pushed slightly forward by the case heads.
If the cylinder is pushed forward by case heads, what are the potential effects on other parts?
The crane pivot houses the cylinder latch/bolt spring/plunger. If the cylinder/crane moves forward, it COULD lessen the force working to keep the latch/bolt in the up position. The face of the cylinder can also be cause to rub on the breech of the barrel if forced forward far enough. Case heads can do that, but so does the pawl. Color the whole front of the cylinder with a Sharpie and try operating the gun with and without cases. Then, look at the face of the cylinder.
There are two little "ears" on the underside of the cylinder-frame which register the crane/cylinder assembly fore and aft. The can become worn enough to allow too much movement of the crane./cylinder assembly. This CAN be corrected, so don't panic, but don't try to do it yourself. The cylinder latch/bolt is not the crude chunk of steel it appears to be - there's a lot going on in side one of these guns.
Jerry Kuhnhausen's Shop Manual is invaluable if you own one of these guns, even if you never work on them yourself. It offers valuable insight to understanding their function and operation.
If I had it in my hands, I'd figure it out, but tough to ask/answer as many questions as your fingers, eyes and brain can process with the gun in hand
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Post by parallaxbill on Jan 19, 2024 8:04:56 GMT -5
First stab in the dark is: are the case heads dragging on something? Do you have sufficient headspace? Yes
Are there any rough spots on the breech-face/front surface of the recoil shield? No
Is there a firing pin bushing (I don't remember), and is it proud of the breech-face? No
Check end-shake on the cylinder. It's fine, like new.
I'm assuming this is in DA mode? Either mode
Besides a prominent cylinder ring there is no appreciable wear anywhere on the gun.
Timing seems normal.
Lockup is great.
No cylinder end shake.
Close clearance but no drag on the cylinder gap.
Internal parts look great now but when I first encountered the locking problem I disassembled it and found that one side of the transfer bar was heavily burred. I carefully filed off the burr and checked the rest of the internal parts for burrs, defects or wear and found nothing amiss. Upon reassembling the revolver I felt sure that I had identified the problem but the first test at the range it still locked up after firing.
I'll start attaching pics to this thread as I disassemble it again.
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Post by parallaxbill on Jan 19, 2024 8:08:23 GMT -5
If you spot anything let me know, but this looks normal to me.
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Post by parallaxbill on Jan 19, 2024 8:21:52 GMT -5
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Post by parallaxbill on Jan 19, 2024 8:28:46 GMT -5
I will note that this is the toughest Ruger action of this type that I've ever disassembled. With the plunger pushed all the way in it still fights me to get the trigger group out.
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Post by squigz on Jan 19, 2024 9:31:24 GMT -5
Might be a stupid question/suggestion because I just had this brain fart not long ago..
Did you check to make sure ejector rod was screwed in appropriately when fully assembled?
I didn't tighten one of mine up enough and it was causing similar issues. I thought they were much deeper but it turned out to be a silly simple oversight.
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Post by bigbrowndog on Jan 19, 2024 10:38:25 GMT -5
The hammer strut is an easy part to touch up, I try and do all my non-custom Rugers
Trapr.
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jeffh
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Post by jeffh on Jan 19, 2024 10:54:41 GMT -5
Might be a stupid question/suggestion because I just had this brain fart not long ago.. Did you check to make sure ejector rod was screwed in appropriately when fully assembled? I didn't tighten one of mine up enough and it was causing similar issues. I thought they were much deeper but it turned out to be a silly simple oversight. It's been two years since I had my last one apart and my Shop Manual is in a box.... somewhere.
Good point, squigz.
The end of the rod that locks the rear of the cylinder to the frame pushes the cylinder release latch/catch back, which also clears the pawl so that you cannot cock the gun while the cylinder is open. If the cylinder release latch is not back far enough, the pawl can catch and not allow the gun to cock. I THINK the rod I'm talking about goes end to end on these and squigz may be onto something here.
Looks like no one ever did the compulsory new-Ruger-deburr on that one. That makes me hopeful that if it's not the ejector/cylinder release latch, there are plenty of opportunities to clean up in there. I'd polish the side of that transfer bar too. I know you took care of the problem, but every little bit of friction doesn't mean much on its own, but addressing the sum of all of them makes a difference.
Make sure you have six empty fired cases in the chambers before torquing on the ejector rod - in either direction. a thin strip of brass or copper shim stock wrapped on the ejector button helps protect it and bites into the knurling. I BELIEVE it's a LH thread.
It MAY help to clean up the bore the take-down plunger spring rides in on the tough disassembly. On OM Ruger SAs, Security-Six series DAs and SP101s, I've encountered bore holes meant to contain springs that looked like someone used a rusty old post-hole digger on them.
I'm not an expert on these - just very stubborn and have found that shop manual and observing all functions in slo-mo over and over to be my best bet. Seems like every time I get one in my hands, or open that manual, I learn something new.
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jeffh
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Posts: 1,606
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Post by jeffh on Jan 19, 2024 10:56:55 GMT -5
The hammer strut is an easy part to touch up, I try and do all my non-custom Rugers Trapr. And the one in the pic sure could use it.
That's a hellacious burr all the way round the top end. This could drag on the sides of the slot in the hammer. but it doesn't look like it has been dragging. Still, that's an ugly burr.
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Post by parallaxbill on Jan 19, 2024 11:36:19 GMT -5
The strut is cleaned up now. I just got back from the range and it still isn't fixed. I didn't think the hammer strut was the problem either.
I'll check on the ejector rod after lunch.
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Post by parallaxbill on Jan 19, 2024 12:43:29 GMT -5
The ejector rod was tight and assembled correctly through the cylinder and the only thing that caught my eye was the long thin ejector pin was bent enough to have a bright area worn into it from rubbing the inside of the ejector rod housing. I carefully straightened it and reassembled the gun once again. Everything seems nice and smooth but it has felt that way before.
I'm not going back to the range for a couple of days but I'll post up any changes.
I sure would like to get this one running well because it is crazy accurate, especially in 357 magnum.
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Post by bigbore5 on Jan 21, 2024 10:03:08 GMT -5
Silly question, but are you getting primer flow back into the firing pin hole?
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jeffh
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Post by jeffh on Jan 21, 2024 10:13:01 GMT -5
Silly question, but are you getting primer flow back into the firing pin hole?
Not so much silly as OBVIOUS. Good catch.
I didn't think to ask it, but it probably should have been the first question.
I don't see drag marks on the recoil shield, but it sure would be convenient of that was the problem.
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Post by parallaxbill on Jan 22, 2024 11:29:46 GMT -5
Silly question, but are you getting primer flow back into the firing pin hole? No.
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