Old Model 45 Auto Rim...

[tj3006]

Nice Revolver !
And the grips are very nice, Similar to some I have from Bear Paw Grips, But Mine are on Bisley's.
...tj

[bobwright]

I don't really see any advantage to having the cylinder counterbored for .45 Auto Rim. Your gun, your choice, and none of my business. But it does sort of negate use of the .45 Special and/or similar cartridges. The .45 Auto Rim is getting scarcer and scarcer to obtain brass, and loaded ammunition is a thing of the past.

I have kept mine unaltered and use cut-down .45 Colt brass that would otherwise be discarded.



Bob Wright

[Encore64]

LOL... Yep, we're definitely on two different sides of the fence on this one.

I see no disadvantage to having this conversion done.

The cylinder will still shoot 45 ACP and 45 Super just fine. It'll also still shoot 45 Cowboy Special as it's the same length as 45 ACP. Simply taper crimp instead of roll crimp and it works just fine.

The 45 Auto Rim is much more established than any of the shortened 45 Colt Offspring. Starline has 45 AR available now, but not so with 45 Special.

As you said, it's just an individual choice...

[handloadingnotes]

Mar 21, 2023 17:15:47 GMT -5 Encore64 said:

Mar 21, 2023 17:00:26 GMT -5 lar4570 said:

I don't have an Auto Rim case to double check, but the AR and ACP were supposed to be the same except for the rim.

Outside dimensions are the same except for the rim.

Web thickness and internal capacity has varied from my measurements. I just want to check capacity before loading Auto Rim to 45 Super Pressures...

Smart to measure, I understand there can be real differences between ACP and AR brass.

By the way, the latest Sierra manuals have data for 45 ACP loaded hot in a Freedom Arms revolver. Might help here.

[bobwright]

Mar 23, 2023 9:23:36 GMT -5 Encore64 said:

LOL... Yep, we're definitely on two different sides of the fence on this one.

I see no disadvantage to having this conversion done.

The cylinder will still shoot 45 ACP and 45 Super just fine. It'll also still shoot 45 Cowboy Special as it's the same length as 45 ACP. Simply taper crimp instead of roll crimp and it works just fine.

The 45 Auto Rim is much more established than any of the shortened 45 Colt Offspring. Starline has 45 AR available now, but not so with 45 Special.

As you said, it's just an individual choice...

Well, it would seem to me that if the chambers are counterbored, the .45 Special will be too long unless the chamber throat is deepened? Whereas, in an unaltered cylinder the case headspaces o the rear face of the cylinder, the case mouth is seated on the cylinder throat shoulder, or very near so, anyway. So now the case sits deeper by the depth of the counterbore, or am I missing something here?

CraigC, of Graveyard Jack gunleather, had the experience that .45 Special was too long to seat correctly in his ACP chamber as it was.

Bob Wright

[Encore64]

Individual guns and chambers vary. I'm very secure with this modification.

I've had this gun altered and a FA97 as well. Also, two full customs by Clements in 45 Auto Rim. I really like the cartridge...

[Encore64]

Mar 17, 2023 18:48:16 GMT -5 pleadthe2nd said:

Enforcer, now that's serious medicine in a 45, let us know the results of that please, should be impressive from the 7.5 barrel

Well, I tried the Enforcer Powder today...

Shooting 230 grn Coated Cast, 14.5 grn of Enforcer produced 1080 fps.

I did seat these a little long, so may try 15.0 grn later. But honestly, I'm pleased with these velocities for standard 45 ACP Pressures.

[pleadthe2nd]

Excellent results, I think I would be happy with that velocity also, definitely a hard hitter

[Encore64]

GT Bullets makes a nice 225 grn HP that should be ideal for this gun.

It's nice to have a rimmed option in this (or any) revolver.

Of course, this being an Old Model, the cylinder had to be recessed to use any rimmed cartridge.

I want to try these loads in my FA97 and Clements 45 AR too...

[Encore64]

The same load above in different barrel lengths...

FA97 45 AR 5.50" - 972 fps
Clements 45 AR 4.62" - 921 fps

Next up Power Pistol...

[bushog]

Have I posted pics of my medium frame OM .45 AR that David did?

Yours will shoot .45ACP too, right?

Following this closely….

[Encore64]

Weather is turning to crap, so I dropped the FA97. For Power Pistol, I used only the O.M. 7.5" and Clements 4.62".

Using Brian Pearce's Data from Handloader #310, I settled on 8.0 grn as maximum while staying in the 21k PSI Range.

POWER PISTOL...

7.5 grn 230 grn Coated Cast
Clements 4.62" - 972 fps
Ruger O.M. 7.5" - 1027 fps

8.0 grn 230 grn Coated Cast
Clements 4.62" - 1037 fps
Ruger O.M. 7.5" - 1098 fps

[Encore64]

Notes...

The above loads with Enforcer Powder are the last 45 ACP/AR loads I'll ever fire. The noise levels are ridiculous and recoil is significantly harder than with Power Pistol.

Power Pistol was very mild mannered and recoil was on par with any 45 ACP Load.

Enforcer 482 Rds per pound
Power Pistol 875 Rds per pound

Duh...

[Odin]

Excellent excellent excellent!! I've read multiple times of the speed-without-pressure properties of Enforcer in the 45ACP case, but was fairly certain that somewhere there was a tradeoff. My concerns generally center around ACCURACY, but excessive noise is something I'd prefer to avoid in field conditions.

Seeing Power Pistol drive the same slug to the same velocities with half the powder and less noise, well, I guess you said it...

Duh!

[Encore64]

Missouri Bullets makes a super hard, 215 grn WFN Bullet for the 460 Rowland.

It looks like 1075-1100 fps is likely in my FA97 45 Auto Rim. This might unseat my FA97 44 Special as Woods Carry #1.

Also, with 23k +P Pressures, looks like the Matt's 250 grn WC will travel at 950 fps.

That's a lot of frontal diameter from a little gun...