38-44 HD - The Non-Magnum Magnum...

[Encore64]

In October 2006, Brian Pearce had a really informative, well written article on the 38-44 HD in Handloader #243. It piqued my interest because the cartridge is practically forgotten today.

That's unfortunate since this is the very cartridge that lead to the very first "Magnum."

Ten years to the month later, October 2016, he updated the data in Handloader #304.

The basic description is a 38 Special Cartridge loaded to higher pressure. Very common in 44 Special and 45 Colt, but unheard of today in the 38 Special.

There was factory produced ammo. I've read it was loaded to 25k. Elmer Keith's handloads reportedly produced 42k. Most data I've collected in the last 16 years states that it produces pressure up to 357 Magnum Levels of 35k. Performance is respectable...

These loads were intended for heavy S&W N-Frame Revolvers. But, I was thinking about a light weight gun.

So, I turned to Dave Clements. Not really a surprise there. But, he is working on his last batch of 38 Special Single Six Revolvers.

Since he uses the same cylinder blanks in his 9mm Version, he recommends 35k as maximum in his 38 Special. As a bonus, he provides load data with every gun.

Greg (Bushog) posted his in the Gallery Section with some excellent pictures.

Information from Dave is Cylinder Diameter is the same as a S&W 19. Strength is improved due to the Single Action Design. Plus, lock notches are offset on the Ruger as opposed to directly over the chambers.

More after Tim posts some ammo pictures...

[tdbarton]

[taffin]

The 1920s were a time of unprecedented economic growth in the United States which came to a screeching halt with the advance of the Great Depression in 1929. We had emerged from WWI as the reigning superpower and the modern era had begun. It would be a decade of automobiles for the blue-collar worker, the rise of radio, and the beginning of talking movies. Old traditional social morays were discarded and the decade became known as The Roaring Twenties; it was also a time of unprecedented crime. In January of 1920 the Volstead Act became the law of the land basically stopping the production and sale of alcoholic beverages. It did stop the production and sale of legal liquor, however illegal alcohol flowed as underground breweries and private clubs known as speakeasies emerged everywhere. Men like Al Capone made millions during prohibition. Alcohol was legalized once again in 1933, however with hard economic times a new breed of criminal had arisen specializing in robbing banks.
Not only had criminals discovered fast-moving automobiles they did not hesitate to arm themselves with a gun that became known as "The Chicago Chopper” and also "The Gun That Made The Twenties Roar”, Col. John Thompson’s .45 fully automatic
“Thompson”. Police were armed with standard .38 Special revolvers using 158 grain round-nosed bullets with a muzzle velocity under 800 fps. They simply bounced off car bodies. The call went out to Colt and Smith & Wesson to provide better handguns for peace officers. Colt was the first to respond. They took an existing cartridge, the .38 Colt, increased the powder charge, and chambered it in the 1911 Government Model. The new .38 Super used a full metal jacketed 130 grain bullet at 1,300 fps.
Smith & Wesson took a different path. They had been producing the standard police revolver, the .38 Special Military & Police for 30 years. With the existing metallurgy of the time period there was no way to increase the power of the .38 Special for use in this revolver. So Smith & Wesson looked to their large-framed revolver, the .44 Special Model 1926, fitted it with a .38 Special cylinder and barrel and the result became known as the .38/44 Heavy Duty which could not only use standard .38 Special ammunition but the new .38/44 round as well. This latter round was simply a hot loaded .38 Special with a muzzle velocity of 1,125 fps. Notice in that time frame both Colt and Smith & Wesson used existing cartridges, loaded them hotter which made them dangerous to use in either existing .38 Colt semi-autos or .38 Special Colt or Smith & Wesson revolvers; they expected people to be smart enough to know which ammunition was to be used in which firearm. No warning labels obscenely printed on firearms, no lengthening of brass to keep it out of the older guns. Were people that much smarter in the 1920s/1930s?
Smith & Wesson’s .38/44 Heavy Duty arrived in April 1930. The standard model featured a 5” barrel with fixed sights and it truly was a heavy-duty sixgun having been built on the .44 platform with smaller holes drilled in both cylinder and barrel. It made the recoil of a standard .38 special round feel like a .22 while the new .38/44 round was easily manageable. The old pre-war super smooth long action of Smith & Wesson sixgtuns is legendary and many have commented shooting the .38/44 Heavy Duty double action was made easier as inertia seem to take over to help rotate the cylinder.
In addition to the 5” standard model, Smith & Wesson also produced both 4” and 6-1/2” versions. It was only a few years ago when these guns could be picked up in excellent shape for $300 or less; those days are now gone and expect to pay at least double or more than that today. The Heavy Duty was designed with law enforcement in mind, however Smith & Wesson did not take long to realize the versatility of what they had and in late 1931 brought out the .38/44 Outdoorsman. This was nothing more than a Heavy Duty fitted with target sights for, just as its name suggested, outdoor use. The
.38/44 Outdoorsman was cataloged only with a 6-1/2” barrel, however more than one peace officer had the Outdoorsman cut back to 4” for duty use, or in this case Heavy Duty use. I have a picture of Col. Walter Walsh, who was an FBI agent prior to WWII, dated 1954 and it shows him using a 4” .38/44 Outdoorsman.
Of course, manufacturing of the Heavy Duty and Outdoorsman ended with the beginning of World War II, however production resumed in 1946 with approximately 2,500 of each being produced until they became the Model of 1950. The old long action disappeared with the new models which became the Model 20 and Model 23 respectively in 1957 when all Smith & Wessons lost their wonderful names and became numbers. Both models were removed from production forever in 1966.
In Major D.B. Wesson’s 1932 book called Burning Powder we have one of the first reports on the then new .38/44s. This particular section was written by U.S. Navy Captain James Baldwin: "For over a quarter of a century there has been a demand for a handgun of unusual abilities, one which at 100, 200 or even 500 yards could, if necessary, in lieu of a rifle being handy, down a large animal, or be used to kill such an animal at close quarters, when the rifle had failed to kill at long ranges. It was also demanded that this handgun be a target gun of unusual accuracy and also one for personal protection, and even if heavy, so perfectly balanced that its weight would not be felt above that of a gun used solely as a protective weapon, and carried in the waistband or holster…..
The new Outdoorsman is unquestionably the finest handgun ever developed, and it is the sweetest shooting gun the writer has ever seen…. Suffice it to say that for many years articles pro and con have been written relative to the best gun for outdoors and general use. The advent of this new Outdoorsman ends all such arguments. It is the crowning glory of gun achievement, and much honor is due its makers, also the ammunition company whose foresighted ability made possible a cartridge worthy of the new gun…. the .38/44 Heavy Duty is an ideal defense weapon and doubly ideal from the point of a psychological angle. Its muzzle end is most imposing looking, and very discouraging, especially to the ambitious bank robber with premeditated ideas."
I don't know about using the .38/44 on large animals at any range!
Elmer Keith was an early proponent of the .38/44 so much so in fact he designed a .38 bullet comparable to his .44 bullet. Both were designed for the old Lyman Ideal Company and both not only still exist they remain two of the most popular sixgun bullets for casters and reloaders. His .44 bullet is #429421 while the .38 is given the designation #358429. This latter bullet has a relatively long nose for use in the Smith & Wesson Heavy Duty cylinder and depending upon the casting alloy weighs between 168 and 173 grains.
Keith really pushed the envelope with the .38 Special in the .38/44 Heavy Duty. He said he used what powders were available at the time, which weren’t very many, and settled on #80 which has been out of production for 70 plus years now. He used 10 grains and shot hundreds of loads and then moved up to 11 grains and while he said it worked well in both the .38/44 and the Colt SAA .38 Special he decided to have it pressure tested. Sending them off to Peters Cartridge Company he found they were operating at 42,000 pounds pressure!! Is that scary or what? The later .357 and .44 Magnums operate at much lower pressures than this.
With the advent of #2400 Keith discarded #80 and soon settled on what has come to be known as the Keith Heavy .38 Special load. Using his #358429 he settled on 13.5 grains of #2400. I have shot thousands of these loads beginning in the late 1956/early 1957 using .38 Special brass in my then new Ruger .357 Blackhawk. At the time .357 Magnum brass was not easy to find while .38 Special was readily available. This Keith load is not to be taken lightly! When I clocked this load a few years ago out of a pair of Smith & Wesson .357 Magnum sixguns, one with an 8-3/8” barrel and the other a 5” barrel, I got over 1,400 fps with the former and more than 1,300 fps with the latter; that makes this load hotter than many factory .357 Magnums. In July it clocks out at 1,400 fps+ in a 6-1/2” .38/44 Outdoorsman.
To duplicate the original .38/44 factory load I use the Keith bullet over 11.0 grains of #2400 for just over 1,100 fps. I also like the lighter by about 15 grains RCBS #38-150KT and the Lyman/Thompson #358156 gas-checked bullet all over this same powder charge. Skeeter Skelton’s Heavy Duty load used one less grain of powder than Keith did and he also crimped in the bottom crimping group of #358156 to increase powder space. This drops the muzzle velocity approximately 100 fps with the resulting decrease in pressure. There was a time in my younger years when I had to load everything to the hilt. Today I can't see any real reason to go over 12.5 grains of #2400 for use in .38/44 loads except when crimping in the bottom crimp groove of Lyman’s #358156GC; I then use 13.5 gr. #2400. I have used the heavier load in heavy-framed .38s and still load it; still use it occasionally. It is for use only in .38/44 sixguns but it is best to use it only in .357 Magnum sixguns. For most of my .38/44 loads I prefer 12.0 to 12.5 grains of 4227. It is mild shooting and accurate, extremely so with the RCBS #38-150KT.
My 1948 .38/44 Outdoorsman was found in a gun shop next to a quilt shop Diamond Dot spotted on trip home from Cody. After I started this piece I traded into my second one, a 1952 example. They are both excellent testimony to the quality of Classic N-Frame Sixguns of Smith & Wesson in the middle of the 20th Century. The 1948 .38/44 has the old pre-war long action while the 1952 .38/44 was modernized with the post-1950 short action.
The .38/44 was a great step forward both in the two models of Smith & Wesson sixguns and the accompanying ammunition. Not only, as Captain Baldwin said, did it fulfill the need for a heavy-duty sixgun capable of target accuracy, long-range accuracy, and self defense, it set the stage for the arrival of the first Magnum five years later.

[45MAN]

IIRC, COLT CLAIMED ITS OFFICIAL POILICE REVOLVERS WERE RATED FOR 38/44 LOADS. I OWN SEVERAL OF THEM BUT I HAVE NO PLANS ON USING 38/44 AMMO IN THEM.

NOW, IN THE CATEGORY OF "WHAT THE HECK IS THIS FOR" I HAVE A 6.5" FS N FRAME IN 38 SPECIAL, A COOL LOOKING M&P STYLE REVOLVER, BUT TODAY NOT VERY PRACTICAL.

[Encore64]

So, I was hoping for John Taffin would post. He did in a big way and hopefully he'll provide input along the way.

He also has devolped and posted extensive load data suitable in this cartridge. Hopefully, he'll post it as well.

It'll be a very limited interest thread. But, most of my interests are not mainstream.

[Encore64]

The Gun...

I went into this project with the definition of the 38-44 HD being a 38 Special loaded to 35k PSI Max. I will not set the Elmer Keith Load as maximum. Nor, will I use his preferred long nosed SWC Bullet due to cylinder length.

The base gun is a blued Bisley 32 Magnum Single Six. Barrel length will be 6.5" as this will be looked at as a hunting gun.

Cylinder will be 6-Shot with Counterbored Chambers. I requested the cylinder made from 17-4 Stainless due to it's strength and ductility. Maximum COAL will be limited to 1.5". I don't mind that this'll be a two toned gun.

It'll be marked ".38-44 HD"

Looking at Clements' Data, I'll expect 1200 +/- FPS from a 160-180 grn in this barrel length. That's getting into 10mm Territory.

[Encore64]

More from John Taffin regarding the Heavy 38 Special Loads...

americanhandgunner.com/gear/38-special/

www.sixguns.com/tests/tt38spcl.htm

[bushog]

I shoot most of my guns in the 1000-1100fps range. If I need more I have choices.

These 38 specials will do this with ease.

They’re fun!

[Encore64]

As Bushog and I have already discussed, I purchased 500 Starline 38 Special +P Brass for this project.

Since it's likely I'll want to try GT HP Bullets, I also bought 500 Starline 38 Long Colt Brass.

The GT Bullets generally have a longer nose length. Data in the 25-30k PSI range will be easy for the Long Colt Brass due to having only slightly more capacity than the 38 Super.

[clintsfolly]

Huntington is building my Single Five big bore. Mine is going to be a 10 mm. I came to that decision knowing that I could shoot a 200 gr cast bullet to 1100 fps but will probably look for a 950-1000 fps load. Not much more power then the 38-44hd but the bullet is already expanded!

[Encore64]

Apr 7, 2022 20:43:12 GMT -5 clintsfolly said:

Huntington is building my Single Five big bore. Mine is going to be a 10 mm. I came to that decision knowing that I could shoot a 200 gr cast bullet to 1100 fps but will probably look for a 950-1000 fps load. Not much more power then the 38-44hd but the bullet is already expanded!

Excellent Choice!!! The 10mm is a fantastic choice in the Single Six. Mine has a 6" barrel and 1200 fps is easy with a 200 grn. The true advantage is being able to seat bullets long. Longshot Powder is by far the best I've found.

[clintsfolly]

Apr 7, 2022 20:47:06 GMT -5 Encore64 said:

Apr 7, 2022 20:43:12 GMT -5 clintsfolly said:

Huntington is building my Single Five big bore. Mine is going to be a 10 mm. I came to that decision knowing that I could shoot a 200 gr cast bullet to 1100 fps but will probably look for a 950-1000 fps load. Not much more power then the 38-44hd but the bullet is already expanded!

Excellent Choice!!! The 10mm is a fantastic choice in the Single Six. Mine has a 6" barrel and 1200 fps is easy with a 200 grn. The true advantage is being able to seat bullets long. Longshot Powder is by far the best I've found.

Mine will be 4 5/8” barrel. Haven’t seen any Longshot powder local but will have to look harder!

[2 Dogs]

Apr 7, 2022 18:03:28 GMT -5 Encore64 said:

So, I was hoping for John Taffin would post. He did in a big way and hopefully he'll provide input along the way.

He also has devolped and posted extensive load data suitable in this cartridge. Hopefully, he'll post it as well.

It'll be a very limited interest thread. But, most of my interests are not mainstream.

The people who share your passion for this sort of thing will contribute. The rest might have to do some catching up.

[Encore64]

Fermin, that's a true story...

These "old" ideas are seemingly even better ideas today. This is mostly because of powders available to us.

Looking at the Alliant Website, Power Pistol will push a 158 grn cast bullet to 1050 +/- fps with a 6.0 grn charge in 38 Special Brass. This load is within the +P Pressure Cap of 20k PSI.

This recipe will do most of what I'm looking for and a single pound will load 1150+ rds.

There has been quite a number of powders introduced that provide enhanced performance in the popular auto pistol rounds. Not surprising they perform similarly in smaller capacity revolver rounds.

For those who can move past the hysteria of loading old cartridges to modern ballistics, it's a whole new world of opportunities waiting...

[foxtrapper]

Apr 8, 2022 1:55:00 GMT -5 2 Dogs said:

Apr 7, 2022 18:03:28 GMT -5 Encore64 said:

So, I was hoping for John Taffin would post. He did in a big way and hopefully he'll provide input along the way.

He also has devolped and posted extensive load data suitable in this cartridge. Hopefully, he'll post it as well.

It'll be a very limited interest thread. But, most of my interests are not mainstream.

The people who share your passion for this sort of thing will contribute. The rest might have to do some catching up.

Might not be local but…… www.powdervalleyinc.com/product/hodgdon-longshot/. For Clint!