Ruger Old Army Hollow Base Bullet

[starmetal47]

This had been a long time coming.  Many months ago boolitdesigner (45 2.1) was asked to design a bullet for the ROA.  It doesn't look like it was going to come to fruitation in the forum the bullet was discussed.  Bob is a very good friend of mine so I called him and discussed the hollow base bullet and we came up with a plan. I got the proprietary dimensions of the bullet and sent them to Accurate Molds.  This was in  March. By April Tom at Accurate Molds was ready to make the mold and I ordered it first week of April. I just received it yesterday and just come in now from casting.  I worked all day yesterday and evening making the old RCBS style of base pin mechanism to hold the base pin I had to make myself as Tom doesn't do that service. The bullet is suppose to have a .457 front band and the base is to be .452.  This is cast from lead.  I'm waiting for the bullets to cool down so I can examine them, weigh them, and mic their dimensions after which I will be shooting them. I don't know if the shooting test will be today or not. So heads up of coming events on this bullet. 

[starmetal47]

I have a picture. One bullet is left unlubed.  I was having trouble with the mold and even with it fully heated up along with the lead termperature I was getting wrinkles. I did have a venting problem which I corrected. I'll have to talk to Bob about what is causing this.  The bullet mic dead on at .457 front band and .452 base band.  The reason for two band dimensions is we know Ruger recommends a .457 for a round ball in order to shave lead off the ball to insure a good seal in the chamber, thus the reason for the .457 front band. The .452 base band is for easier loading into the cylinder chamber.  I have a special lube that I make for my centerfire cast rifle bullets that I have used with black powder and found it to do very well.  It's soap based. 

[NathanHale]

Interested in your results. How much powder were you able to put behind the bullet?

[starmetal47]

Jun 13, 2021 15:25:32 GMT -5 NathanHale said:

Interested in your results. How much powder were you able to put behind the bullet?

NathanHale I haven't shot this particular bullet yet, probably tomorrow, but take in fact that the ROA hold more powder then the stardard cap n ball revolvers of similar caliber except for the Colt Dragoons.  With that said most most my shooting with my ROA today is with Triple Seven powder. I DO NOT RECOMMEND SHOOTING TRIPLE SEVEN IN OTHER BRAND CAP N BALL REVOLVERS.  The ROA will hold up to 40 grains of black powder. I have shot 255 grain SWC 45 Colt bullets made from an RCBS mold from my ROA with 30 some grains of Triple Seven. With this new bullet being hollow base you can get a tad more powder in the cylinder then if it were a flat base.

[NathanHale]

I have an ROA. I inherited it from my dad. Ive jammed the cylinder full of 777 ( after researching the limitations) put a ball over it and just cleared the frame. Great fun knowing the pistol will handle that much powder. I am going to use it as back-up during muzzleloader bear and deer season behind my inline TC. I know I have gotten 1250-1300 fps at the muzzle with a round ball and would be interested in the bullet you are developing as a hunting load. Thank you for posting your development.
N. H.

[diddle]

Pure lead is a difficult casting material. When casting a hollow based bullet, expect higher defect rates. Your mold and melt will need to be very hot (compared to a Pb/Sb/Sn alloy). Adding a bit of tin will help with fill out while not appreciably hardening your finished bullets. I use about 1% tin and 99% pure lead when I cast hollow base Minnie bullets. YMMV.

[starmetal47]

I've gotten some really impressive velocitied shooting 200 grain SWC's meant for the 45 acp from my ROA with 777. I use 3F Tripler Seven. I've read reports on the strength of the ROA and that is impressive too. I started out with BP, but was tired of the fouling. Next I tried Pyrodex. I learned a valuable lesson there. Pyrodex cut my top strap from the flame out of the cylinder gap and it also burned a small hole in my hammer face. I was told by some very good friends when I lived in Ohio about how bad Pyrodex is and they went on to say it was more corrosive then BP. Well I know now some of the things that it will do to a revolver. I spoke to Hodgdon about it and all they was pushed me off to Ruger. I didn't persue Ruger because I know it's not their fault. So that's how I ended up with 777. I wish that Hodgdon would release 888, but it's tied up in contract with Traditions and I believe Federal. We won't be seeing it on the shelves for quite some time.

[starmetal47]

There have been some updates. First let me explain the origin of this bullet. Boolitdesigner had drawn up some bullets that later were produced that could be said were the forefathers of his ROA hollowbase bullet. Another fellow from Europe was interested in a hollowbase bullet for the ROA and he got in touch with Bob. What I got from Bob is the gentlement wanted a bullet for hunting, he wanted it in the 250 grain range and he wanted it to be a hollowbase inaddition to it having a .457 front band to shear the little ring of lead during seating like Ruger recommended when using a .457 roundball. I got Bob's version of the bullet and gave the dimensions to Accurate Molds. So as presented earlier here I've finally shot it and have many comments about it. In my opinion the bullet is too long. You can't get enough powder behind it to get a nice veloocity even with Triple Seven which is much more potent then BP. I got near 900 fps with the 777 powder which was in the 28 to 29 grain range. Next the bullet is very hard to get started in the chamber mouth as the ROA really wasn't designed to shoot long conicals. More on this later. It's in my opinion also that there is no need for a hollowbase bullet in this firearm. I did some shooting at 30-35 yards and wasn't impressed with the performance. So yesterday I made a new base plug to cast a flat base. The bullet is going to weigh in the 245 grain bracket. I made a little modification and that is the base plug is machined to put a very very slight bevel base on the bullet base to facilitate easier loading which it does. Right now the lead pot is heating up and I'll be casting some shortly and shooting them later on this afternoon. Now if I have anything wrong in this write up I would hope that Bob steps in and corrects them or maybe gives his take on the whole idea.

[boolitdesigner]

There is more to come............... Some things vary a lot with minor changes. More later.

[starmetal47]

Bob is right there is more to come. In fact we're going to call the first bullet Mark. The recent mod I just made shall be Mark I. I had to make another modification because Mark I was too heavy. It was 262 grain's. That means we're on Mark IIa now. I was on the phone with Bod, as I am all the time, through this bullet development. Bob was satisfied with the width of the base band. I told him I believe will have have a small hollow base. He agree and we talking in length about that. I just finished the work on the lathe and the pot is heating up once again. I'll cast few and weight them and if they are on target I'll continue to cast up a bunch. Stay tuned!!!

[starmetal47]

Well after a lot of work I think I finally got what I want. The final bullet weighs 244 grains. It has a very shallow cavity in the base. If you fellows are familiar with the little raised flat nose on a 38 Special wadcutter, then this is the reverse that except larger diameter because it's on a 45 caliber bullet. Will post some pictures later. This one is Mark III.

[starmetal47]

I'm finishe with the mold. I shot it today with both 777 and Curtis Harvy BP. Quite a difference in velocity in the two by over 200 fps. The top velocity with the 777 reach a tad over 1000 fps. Mine you know this is a BP revolver even though I used a the substitute 777. I still have more testing to do. I also loaded that 244 grain bullet into some 45 acp cases and fired them out of my Ruger Blackhawk 45 Colt with the 45 acp cylinder in it and my Colt tuned Gold Cup. I got an inche group at 25 yards. I didn't get that out of the ROA, but I'm not finished yet.

[x101airborne]

Glad you are sticking with it. My BP days are long behind me but it is interesting to hear how your project is going. Good luck!

[starmetal47]

Well I'll tell what I think 101airborne a fellow over in Europe corresponded with boolitdesigner to draw up the original bullet after he submitted his design to him. They half ass have a group buy up for it on another forum, but it's not drawing a lot of buyers. I just got off the phone with boolitdesigner and I told him if this fellow was designing a bullet for a 45 caliber muzzle loader his hollow base bullet would be the cat's meow, but you simply don't need it in a Ruger Old Army. The bullet is too long and too heavy. So after all this testing and shooting I've come to the conclusion I'll stick with all the various 200 grain or slightly over SWC's for the 45 acp for my shooting. I told boolitdesigner that a bullet existed that would have served that Europe fellow just fine and that is the Speer 250 grain swaged SWC for the 45 Colt and he agreed. To tell you the truth you can use a 240 grain jacketed hollow point Sierra for that matter. I've shot 230 grain jacketed roundnose hard ball 45 acp bullets from my ROA with no trouble what so ever. I'll tell you a bullet mold I have that works very well and is very accurate and that is the Lyman hollow base conical for the 1858 Remington cap n ball. I was shooting this in all the 45 caliber (44) cap n ball replica's I use to own and continued shooting it in the ROA. Thing is with it that is a light bullet and the skirt is rather thin. It won't take the 777 hot loads as well. I've also shot the same bullet from my 45 acp 1911's too with excellent result with light loads.

[starmetal47]

I've been busy coming up with another bullet for the ROA I have an old Lyman mold for the 1858 Remington Army/NewArmy. It is a hollow base, but the bullet is rather light. What I've done is make a new hollow base plug for it extending the length of the bullet a wee bit to get more weight. From my proto-type test the bullet is going to weigh around 220 some grains. I just finished casting and will have to weigh the final design and shoot them too! I'll post back more about the bullet, but for now here is a pic of the bullet. I deliberately made the skirt thicker to take the higher pressures of Triple 777 powder.