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Post by bradshaw on May 6, 2021 8:23:20 GMT -5
Grant Cunningham had several recommendations IIRC. One was Synthetic Transmission Fluid which I've been using for the last 10 or 15 yrs. Grant Comment: Revolver lot less stressful environment than transmission or something to that effect. FWIW, Paul ***** Heat is the enemy of an automatic transmission. good auto trans fluid withstands heat. Valvoline Synthetic ranks high. Years ago I tried various lubes in 1911’s and SIG/Sauers down to 25-below ZERO. At the time I included regular petroleum auto trans fluid. The 1911’s were relatively indifferent to various gun and automotive oils. Higher SAE viscosity definitely retards slide movement in hard freeze. The long slide/frame rail of SIG/Sauer produced short cycling with upper viscosity motor oil in hard freeze. Remember, I did not use synthetic motor oil, which doesn’t stiffen like regular motor oil. Anti-Seize Compound on the rails & barrel of a Colt Series 80 stainless 1911 with BarSto barrel slowed but was hard to stop. You could feel stiff lube in the cocking and hammer fall of an over-lubriucated revolver, but I was unable to get a misfire or malfunction from a Ruger Super Blackhawk, RedhawkS&W M-29, and M-629. .22s are another story, with much small window of power to cycle the slide or bolt. The Ruger auto pistol and 10/22 carbine easily short-cycle with petroleum lube once you dip below ZERO, especially -10F and below. Brownells Drip-Slide works very well in this environment. When moisture or condensation freezes between bolt & receiver on a semi-auto .22, you’ve got to break that ice-weld. I have never found the need for a Ruger mainspring heavier than stock. And certainly have no need or desire for a light mainspring. Revolvers I’ve carried in hard cold don’t give a damn, they’re ready to play. David Bradshaw
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Post by rkcohen on May 7, 2021 7:40:34 GMT -5
..lar and paul - more than one or two of the folks at the jc garand matches swear by mobil 1 oil/grease for different parts of their shooters.
..i won't argue with them as they always place or win!
like i said, before, in the deep south the four things we don't discuss in polite company are: sex; religion; politics or motor oil....
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Post by cas on May 9, 2021 10:58:13 GMT -5
Engines and transmissions also have pumps to keep that lubrication moving to where it needs to be. I use whatever gun grease I'm using at the moment. This year it's EWG.
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Post by marcruger on May 16, 2021 14:29:03 GMT -5
Encore64 - That Tetralube grease is slippery stuff. Just never get it around Hoppes #9. The combination makes something akin to rust-colored contact cement glue. Awful. Hard as the dickens to get off. My dad had a 1911 that was nearly permanently glued shut in the frame rails. I hope this saves someone some grief. God bless, Marc
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gregs
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Post by gregs on May 28, 2021 0:32:31 GMT -5
TW-25 9-1 with alcohol and straight on slide rails. Also use STP straight on cylinder ratchets and Brownell's synthetic moly on actionworks. Good in cold weather.
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Post by bradshaw on May 28, 2021 8:20:25 GMT -5
Encore64 - That Tetralube grease is slippery stuff. Just never get it around Hoppes #9. The combination makes something akin to rust-colored contact cement glue. Awful. Hard as the dickens to get off. My dad had a 1911 that was nearly permanently glued shut in the frame rails. I hope this saves someone some grief. God bless, Marc ***** Would let a “lubricant” that turns to glue in presence of ole Hoppe’s #9 near a gun of mine. I’m not as particular about choice of lube as preferring lube vs no--lube. Back around 1960 High Power rifle great Sam Burkhalter steered me away from white lithium Lubriplate----the old M1 Garand grease----in favor of a synthetic grease. His experience with the M1 under all conditions, and the recently introduced M-14, showed the issue lithium grease to gum in rain & water. Which the synthetic did not. Stainless-on-stainless as in a revolver does not present the challenge of stainless-on-stainless in an auto pistol. Les Baer observed he will not fit a stainless 1911 as closely as his carbon steel pistol. Likewise, as I’ve stated, stainless bolt action locking lugs are to be lubricated! In fact, galling is a greater threat on a stainless steel bolt action rifle than semi-auto pistol. With the sixgun well behind the auto. In all instances, I refer too good stainless, properly heat treated. Inferior stainless in a firearm inclines to gall by looking at it. Again, experience from the silhouette firing line----thousands of shooters bring thousands of rounds----demonstrate great service from quality stainless revolvers. As for trying to separate different lunbes in a firearm, forget it. They’re going to mix. I don’t worry about. When I have moly-disulfide and Anti-Seize in a revolvers in a revolver they get to know each other. Likewise grease & oil. A stint on the firing line some sandy, windblown place like No Trees, Texas, warrants a towel to cover a grounded gun between relays or while targets are set. Bad scene, grease and oil become a dirt magnet. Moly-disulfide in evaporative medium (Brownells Dry-Slide or powdered graphite from the John deere dealer) are better than locking lugs dry as a cork leg. David Bradshaw
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aciera
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Post by aciera on Jun 1, 2021 17:51:13 GMT -5
David Bradshaw.... Which anti seize......copper or nickel Thank you
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Post by bradshaw on Jun 2, 2021 10:42:21 GMT -5
David Bradshaw.... Which anti seize......copper or nickel Thank you ***** I’ve used the silver Anti-Seize Compound for fifty years. As for the copper vs silver Anti-Seize, I’ve always used silver, including such things as spark plug threads, eluding chainsaws. I’ve used Anti-Seize on the cylinder hubs and base pins of Ruger Single actions campaigned hard, and on the Redhawk ratchet. Also, Model 629s. The Ruger 03 has had Anti-Seize in it since 2003. It is especially important to lube stainless steel locking lugs on a block action. And it doesn’t matter whether the receiver is stainless or carbon steel, stainless locking lugs can be made to gall. The biggest threat is the guy who uses his bolt action as a sizing die. No other action in the world exerts the CAMMING POWER of a bolt action. It is better to size brass a little more than a little less. David Bradshaw
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aciera
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Post by aciera on Jun 2, 2021 22:36:30 GMT -5
David Bradshaw.... Which anti seize......copper or nickel Thank you ***** I’ve used the silver Anti-Seize Compound for fifty years. The copper may be rated for slightly higher temperature, which may be relevant on manifold bolts, not guns. I’ve used Anti-Seize on the cylinder hubs and base pins of Ruger Single actions campaigned hard, and on the Redhawk ratchet. Also, Model 629s. The Ruger 03 has had Anti-Seize in it since 2003. It is especially important to lube stainless steel locking lugs on a block action. And it doesn’t matter whether the receiver is stainless or carbon steel, stainless locking lugs can be made to gall. The biggest threat is the guy who uses his bolt action as a sizing die. No other action in the world exerts the CAMMING POWER of a bolt action. It is better to size brass a little more than a little less. David Bradshaw Thanks David. My problems with stainless were the opposite. Stainless is a mean mistress........with stainless rivets.....which is all stainless on stainless but only moving once.....never to be lubed again we used sheep tallow......all those jets and all those blind rivets......nothing worked better. But it only could work once. I have some nuclear grade for some reason besides the normal copper. I’ll have to go check. Do thank you. On edit: It’s 797.......Nickel and graphite
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Post by bradshaw on Jun 3, 2021 8:03:37 GMT -5
***** I’ve used the silver Anti-Seize Compound for fifty years. The copper may be rated for slightly higher temperature, which may be relevant on manifold bolts, not guns. I’ve used Anti-Seize on the cylinder hubs and base pins of Ruger Single actions campaigned hard, and on the Redhawk ratchet. Also, Model 629s. The Ruger 03 has had Anti-Seize in it since 2003. It is especially important to lube stainless steel locking lugs on a block action. And it doesn’t matter whether the receiver is stainless or carbon steel, stainless locking lugs can be made to gall. The biggest threat is the guy who uses his bolt action as a sizing die. No other action in the world exerts the CAMMING POWER of a bolt action. It is better to size brass a little more than a little less. David Bradshaw Thanks David. My problems with stainless were the opposite. Stainless is a mean mistress........with stainless rivets.....which is all stainless on stainless but only moving once.....never to be lubed again we used sheep tallow......all those jets and all those blind rivets......nothing worked better. But it only could work once. I have some nuclear grade for some reason besides the normal copper. I’ll have to go check. Do thank you. On edit: It’s 797.......Nickel and graphite ***** aciera.... please clarify. Sheep tallow on a space ship? Has mutton grease made it to the moon? And it’s just a one-way grease, ON but not OFF? Intriguing stuff here. Ronnie Wells describes different behaviors from different stainless alloys and heat treatments, chemistry and physics way over my head. Yet we know in terms of strength, despite rumormongering from sofa shooters, 17-4 ph and 416 are both great hardware for sixguns. And, in my describing to Ronnie Wells the greater service life of Ruger 416 hammer & trigger tunes over 17-4 ph hammer & trigger, Ronnie concurs----with technical explanation. My assessment purely experience-based. Wells’ assessment also banked in experience, with technical foundation. The above is just an example from the arcane world of high tech hardware. Does Rocol nuclear grade “Anti Seize 797” nickel graphite (with “controlled levels of chlorine and sulphur”) dramatically differ from Anti-Seizz from the auto parts store? All I want is for my guns to keep working; they have, and do. David Bradshaw
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princeout
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Post by princeout on Jun 3, 2021 14:05:03 GMT -5
Does Rocol nuclear grade “Anti Seize 797” nickel graphite (with “controlled levels of chlorine and sulphur”) dramatically differ from Anti-Seizz from the auto parts store? David Bradshaw At close to $200 for 1.1 lb of product, I sure hope it’s good stuff! Tim
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aciera
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Post by aciera on Jun 4, 2021 1:07:06 GMT -5
Mr. Bradshaw......as to sheep tallow.......when a blind digit is installed dry metal would gall......but too much lubricity would not be good because once the locking ring I’d forced into a recess.....you never want it to back out. So anything that stayed on the metal is not good.
Sooooooo Ol Josep Matuschek thought a bit(spoke 7 languages and a true genius)and wanted a one time lube. Sheep tallow. We would have strain gauges for forces and it worked very well......but it was such a week lubricant it would get “squeezed” out from the force of the metal and you ended up with metal on metal. Same man I believe that had us coat the high torque 12 point aircraft nuts with silver. One time instillation......silver is soft. It worked. Also there is a good bit of heat when a river is pulled. Even a cheap “pop” rivet will heat up quite a bit when installed. Grab a 1/4 river that has been pulled quickly with a pneumatic gun. Won’t take long to look at it.
I probably got the 797 at a flea market. I got bags of 100 aircraft rivets for $4 each one time because I bought the whole 5 gallon bucket of them. Sold them to the car guys at work for $5. Broke most of their rivet pullers. But the hold they had no one complained. Normal price would be $.50-$1 per rivet. And since the stem is locked.....close to 10x the strength.
Back to tallow. Every high grade coating company wanted us to try their coating. Now a 747 has maybe 4,000,000 rivets........lots of coating..........and big bucks for the coating. Nothing else worked as well. And back then the tallow was less than $1.00 a pound. Yes.....once you opened the bag......a shelf life.
Cherry max rivet. Josep Matuschek.........he told me one time during our “sandwich and a beer” talks. He was Transylvanian so imagine the accent:
“I graduate University in 1938.....get a job with Mr Hitler.......not by choice...... 7 years later get new boss.......Mr Stalin......again.....not by choice... Giving a talk in Italy under guard......I jumped off a bridge and swam floated and the guards couldn’t keep up.....took first boat ......went to Chile Worked there and had a 1500 man diesel plant to run........communists get voted in.....I left. They have very long memories........”
Every day he would walk in and ask what was wrong.......”you don’t have to work on what is right........don’t say “look at what is right....a waste of time” work on what Is Wrong!!!!”” Loved working with that ole man.
Anyway.......I can answer a lot of rivet questions
But a lot I don’t understand..........liquid nitrogen to shrink metal for assembly tight?? Not all metals!!! Some Alloys if you freeze Them and they will never go together......
Some harder materials cut easier than softer ones. Fact.
40 years in the trade and still new stuff. ...........
Hydraulic cylinders can be too smooth on the inside. WW 2 taught us a lot
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Post by bradshaw on Jun 4, 2021 9:27:36 GMT -5
aciera.... fascinating stuff. A guru mechanic by the name Howard Barrup introduced me to Anti-Seize for use on tractors and trucks. Even the last can I bought was under ten skins, so your aircraft Anti-Seize must be on another planet. Contender may swing in here, as he had a barrel break off an early Redhawk; something about corrosive lubricant on threads, he said. In a discussion with Ronnie Wells on the subject, he brought up chemical reactions, and quickly took the terminology beyond my pea brain.
The principle of honing a cylinder seems twofold: to to uniform dimension and retain lubricant. Some Smith & Wesson barrels were micro-honed, which showed up on the lands after the rifling broach was pulled through. These barrels tend, in my experience, to deliver superior accuracy. The honing signature eventually wears away, while accuracy continues. David Bradshaw
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aciera
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Post by aciera on Jun 4, 2021 14:21:29 GMT -5
aciera.... fascinating stuff. A guru mechanic by the name Howard Barrup introduced me to Anti-Seize for use on tractors and trucks. Even the last can I bought was under ten skins, so your aircraft Anti-Seize must be on another planet. Contender may swing in here, as he had a barrel break off an early Redhawk; something about corrosive lubricant on threads, he said. In a discussion with Ronnie Wells on the subject, he brought up chemical reactions, and quickly took the terminology beyond my pea brain. The principle of honing a cylinder seems twofold: to to uniform dimension and retain lubricant. Some Smith & Wesson barrels were micro-honed, which showed up on the lands after the rifling broach was pulled through. These barrels tend, in my experience, to deliver superior accuracy. The honing signature eventually wears away, while accuracy continues. David Bradshaw Yes. Hone for lubrication. When we would ballerize a cylinder.......shove a ball through a bore slightly undersized......the surface would be so smooth it would not hold any hydraulic oil. Rubber would gall. And a surface holds oil. In WW2 there was a double action cylinder with 2 O rings with no vent between them. After a while the cylinder would crack. I’ll be wiping of the rings built up oil between them. 3,000psi load. Between the prints they hit over 60k. A simple vent hole fixed it. There are so many special cases. I don’t understand many but can report them. I had to bore the barrel out of a Super Redhawk when the barrel broke once. 44 to 45 conversation. A good mill made it easy.
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Post by contender on Jun 4, 2021 21:19:07 GMT -5
A lot of this,, like David,, can get over my head.
Yes, I was the first person to ship Ruger a broken Redhawk many years ago. I was never told what the lube was. But it did take the good folks at Ruger a few YEARS to discover it was the fact that the barrel thread lubricant, when allowed to sit exposed for an extended period, changed properties enough to create problems with stress when torqued to the frame. Not many did this,, as it was a "perfect storm" of things that came together. Apparently, they applied the lube to several barrels at once, while in a rack, & would assemble them. Well, apparently a FEW barrels got left in the rack for a 2 week shutdown. Then later assembled. My Redhawk was SUPER accurate,, but the barrel broke off. It's replacement isn't nearly as accurate. The lube issue took long enough to uncover,, that they designed & built the Super Redhawk before it was discovered.
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