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Post by bushog on Mar 12, 2021 11:07:26 GMT -5
I wish someone would explain the physics of this phenomenon. I've heard it a few times regarding these bullets as well as Hawk bullets. Yet never, in 45 years of shoting, seen any empirical evidence. Every account I have heard has been anecdotal with nothing to substantiate it.
I just don't see how a full bore diameter, copper jacket being pushed by expanding gasses can manage to expel the core of the bullet and leave the jacket. The jacket, which in itself is the seal between the gasses and the bore would have to continue to move forward as the gasses expand. It would seem that any load light enough to stick one of these Speer bullets would stick any bullet, regardless of the construction.
My apologies if this comes off as snarky but this this is one of those shooting myths that seems to keep resurfacing without any actual evidence.
I shall cancel my post and you may all shoot them at any velocity you may choose........... C'mon now.... We're just gathering info. |
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Post by bushog on Mar 12, 2021 11:08:03 GMT -5
My experience with the (discontinued) Speer half-jacket bullets is limited to 146 SWC HP & 160 SWC in .357, and 225 SWC HP & 240 SWC in .44 Mag. Never had a lick of trouble. The Speer Reloading Manual from 1979 shows data for .38 Special & .357 Mag, but omits the Speer half-jackets from data for the .357 Herrett. Speer 1979 lists HALF-JACKET 200 SWC HP & 220 SWC as its only .41 bullets S&W M-57 6” bbl, 1:18-3/4” twistSpeer 200 SWC HP* 22/Win 296=1348 fps * 18.5/Hercules 2400=1384 fps * 14.2/Hercules Blue Dot=1361 Speer 220 SWC* 20.4/Win 296=1305 fps * 17.5/Hercules 2400=1297 fps * 14.2/Hercules Blue Dot=1310 fps These are NOT STARTING LOADS. Note, also, the listed Blue Dot is a medium burn pistol powder. It does not have the forgiveness of a slow powder near the red line. Nor, for that matter, has 2400 quite the forgiveness of 296/H110 at the red line. David Bradshaw Thanks David! |
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Post by x101airborne on Mar 12, 2021 13:45:18 GMT -5
Interesting. Thanks!
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Post by rjm52 on Mar 12, 2021 20:43:37 GMT -5
My guess would be that if run slow enough the friction coefficient between the copper jacket and the steel barrel would be greater than between the copper jacket and the lead core causing the lead to separate from the jacket. The lead, being much heavier, would then pop out of the cup since unlike later jacketed bullets there wasn't any copper jacket to retain the bullet...
I had a "short round" one time with a Hornady 160 FMJ where there was apparently just enough powder to get the bullet 3/4s of the way down a 4" barrel. I could see that would be a case of possible core separation with those old bullets...
For most reloaders there is no issue but there will always be that one who whats the slowest possible round for target work...
As for Blue Dot...never cared for it either. Tried it back in the 1980s for full charge IPSC loads in a .38 Super and never did get the velocities many others claimed... Never used in the .41 Magnum till a few years ago just to burn up the rest of the leftover 8# can...load works real good with a 180 grain MP FP out of the "little" FA 97...
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Post by ddixie884 on Mar 17, 2021 22:02:15 GMT -5
If you have one loaded into a cartridge, put it in a hammer type bullet puller and give it a few whacks............
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Post by dougader on Apr 2, 2021 16:54:24 GMT -5
I just picked up a box of these in the 200 grain hp from a guy on the mewe dot com site. They look like the box just set on a shelf in someone's man cave or reloading room for a couple decades, but only 98 in the box; fine with me. They'll make some good ammo.
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Post by sixshot on Apr 3, 2021 14:15:06 GMT -5
You mean like these, had them forever & the next 41 magnum shooter that stops by the house will probably leave with them because I'll never shoot them. Also, I've never, ever shot Blue Dot...Ever!   Dick |
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Post by bushog on Apr 3, 2021 18:47:05 GMT -5
You mean like these, had them forever & the next 41 magnum shooter that stops by the house will probably leave with them because I'll never shoot them. Also, I've never, ever shot Blue Dot...Ever! Dick Thanks Dick, I take it you don’t care for these Speer bullets? |
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sal
.30 Stingray
Posts: 315
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Post by sal on Apr 3, 2021 23:26:09 GMT -5
I’ll take them. If available
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sal
.30 Stingray
Posts: 315
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Post by sal on Apr 3, 2021 23:40:10 GMT -5
I’ll take them. If available
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Post by sixshot on Apr 4, 2021 14:14:11 GMT -5
Bush, I've always been afraid that an inferior jacketed bullet would "ruin" the barrels on my six guns......... These bullets are now headed to Texas! Sorry Sal, someone beat you too them!
Dick
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Post by bushog on Apr 4, 2021 16:45:39 GMT -5
Bush, I've always been afraid that an inferior jacketed bullet would "ruin" the barrels on my six guns......... These bullets are now headed to Texas! Sorry Sal, someone beat you too them! Dick We had a short discussion about the jackets separating a few pages back..... That bad huh? |
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Post by bula on Nov 21, 2023 8:37:04 GMT -5
My 44spec Bulldog sure liked the 225gr HP. Miss them. Am enjoying the thought that someone would revive them, and sell them.
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Post by 38 WCF on Nov 21, 2023 10:21:11 GMT -5
I shot an Antelope with one of those back in 1983. If you have access to "The Sixgunner" issue 7-3, 1986, you can read about my hunt. The bullet worked well enough that day.
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kgb
.30 Stingray
Posts: 134
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Post by kgb on Nov 22, 2023 18:39:39 GMT -5
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