caryc
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,039
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Post by caryc on Jun 29, 2020 9:41:33 GMT -5
Sorry to rain on your parade here but just throwing in my personal feelings, I would not have a pair of elephant ivory grips on a gun. I don't care where they came from, an elephant had to die for them. To know that a big majestic animal like an elephant died because of that just doesn't sit well with me.
You guys can do what you want. As I said it's just my feelings. There are enough materials available now that really look like ivory. A guy with a pair of ivory grips may feel somewhat superior just saying "These are real elephant ivory grips" but to me that just makes it worse.
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Post by potatojudge on Jun 29, 2020 10:03:51 GMT -5
Sorry to rain on your parade here but just throwing in my personal feelings, I would not have a pair of elephant ivory grips on a gun. I don't care where they came from, an elephant had to die for them. To know that a big majestic animal like an elephant died because of that just doesn't sit well with me. You guys can do what you want. As I said it's just my feelings. There are enough materials available now that really look like ivory. A guy with a pair of ivory grips may feel somewhat superior just saying "These are real elephant ivory grips" but to me that just makes it worse. Aside from anyone's feelings on killing elephants, every elephant will die. Whether you let the tusks sit to be eaten by hyenas and rodents or if you take them for crafts, that doesn't change anything. Good news: more ivory is being made every day and the better we conserve elephants the more there will be. Can't say the same for fossilized ivory, which I don't hear anyone complaining about. You'd have to say the same for horn grips, only people don't get emotionally attached to sheep by and large. You can make a similar argument over leather and gelatin, but I suppose some animals are more equal than others. For that matter elk, walrus, or hippo teeth commonly used in crafts would be off the table. There's no bush dentist out there doing extractions. If you distance people from the wild and wildlife, they will care less about it. What I don't want to see is elephants or rhinos or tigers being killed en masse for snake oil salesmen to peddle "traditional" medicines when there's real medicine out there for what can be cured. That, to me, is a waste and a shame and a scam for people that actually need help. Give me a "Recovered Ivory from the United Republic of Tanzania" certificate and I'm in. Also, give me a nice block of walnut from a tree felled by a storm, but leave that nice old tree alone otherwise.
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Post by pacecars on Jun 29, 2020 10:41:59 GMT -5
I have belts, holsters, boots and a wallet all made from Elephant hide. I don’t apologize for having any of them. Elephant is an excellent leather that is very durable and looks good. As for the ivory grips I have been looking at, they are Mastodon and have been dead a while. I would love to own Elephant ivory grips but shipping across state lines is problematic. Elephant hunting is the biggie on my bucket list and if I do ever get to go and bring back the ivory I would hope I could make a small part into revolver grips. If you have ever seen what happens to a sport hunted Elephant after it is down and how many people it feeds you would be amazed
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Post by 470evans on Jun 29, 2020 11:39:12 GMT -5
Elephant hunting, actually all big game hunting, is an emotional issue for many people. Unfortunately, as with many emotional issues, people let their emotions get in the way of thinking. Sport hunting is an effective tool for managing wildlife populations whether it is Elephants in Africa or wildlife anywhere. There is only a certain amount of land available for wildlife anyplace it exists. Elephants, due to their size and food requirements suffer from this over population issue more than any other animal. Sport Hunting of Elephants accomplishes two key functions in the management of Elephants. First it allows a country to help manage the size of their Elephant herd. Without this Elephants will eat themselves out of the available space and without any other solutions a country is faced with culling the herds to a manageable level suitable for the ecosystem. A situation that Zimbabwe faces as we speak. With the capacity for 55,000 Elephants they are currently carrying 80,000. A significant part of this issue Zimbabwe is currently facing is the result of the US Government's decision in 2012 to stop allowing sport hunted Elephant trophies to be imported to the US, a decision cheered by animal rights activists who don't understand the result. www.openparly.com/open-butcheries-lets-eat-our-excess-elephants-says-mudarikwa/The second important function sport hunting plays is giving Elephants an economic value. Sport hunting brings in hard currency to areas that would otherwise have little or no economic activity. Without sport hunting allowed in these areas to bring in revenue the Elephants are quickly eliminated by poachers who kill indiscriminately whether the Elephant be a bull, a cow or a calf, it doesn't matter to the poacher. Without the revenue coming in from Sport Hunting more and more people will move into the hunting areas and the game is gone. Examples of would be India and Kenya. At one time, both of these countries boasted some of the highest numbers of wildlife in the world. Today, they are shadows of themselves with the only game left in a few National parks where they battle poachers to survive. Unfortunately, as more and more people believe the propaganda they are fed on TV and believe they are doing the right thing for the animals the animals populations will continue to decline. We will wonder down the road what happened to all the game but history repeats itself and unfortunately we are repeating what happened in Kenya and India all over again. It's very sad....
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caryc
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,039
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Post by caryc on Jun 29, 2020 15:36:48 GMT -5
Elephant hunting, actually all big game hunting, is an emotional issue for many people. Unfortunately, as with many emotional issues, people let their emotions get in the way of thinking. Sport hunting is an effective tool for managing wildlife populations whether it is Elephants in Africa or wildlife anywhere. There is only a certain amount of land available for wildlife anyplace it exists. Elephants, due to their size and food requirements suffer from this over population issue more than any other animal. Sport Hunting of Elephants accomplishes two key functions in the management of Elephants. First it allows a country to help manage the size of their Elephant herd. Without this Elephants will eat themselves out of the available space and without any other solutions a country is faced with culling the herds to a manageable level suitable for the ecosystem. A situation that Zimbabwe faces as we speak. With the capacity for 55,000 Elephants they are currently carrying 80,000. A significant part of this issue Zimbabwe is currently facing is the result of the US Government's decision in 2012 to stop allowing sport hunted Elephant trophies to be imported to the US, a decision cheered by animal rights activists who don't understand the result. www.openparly.com/open-butcheries-lets-eat-our-excess-elephants-says-mudarikwa/The second important function sport hunting plays is giving Elephants an economic value. Sport hunting brings in hard currency to areas that would otherwise have little or no economic activity. Without sport hunting allowed in these areas to bring in revenue the Elephants are quickly eliminated by poachers who kill indiscriminately whether the Elephant be a bull, a cow or a calf, it doesn't matter to the poacher. Without the revenue coming in from Sport Hunting more and more people will move into the hunting areas and the game is gone. Examples of would be India and Kenya. At one time, both of these countries boasted some of the highest numbers of wildlife in the world. Today, they are shadows of themselves with the only game left in a few National parks where they battle poachers to survive. Unfortunately, as more and more people believe the propaganda they are fed on TV and believe they are doing the right thing for the animals the animals populations will continue to decline. We will wonder down the road what happened to all the game but history repeats itself and unfortunately we are repeating what happened in Kenya and India all over again. It's very sad.... I was never hinting that anyone owning a set of ivory grips need to apologize for having them. Nature has a way of handling its animals. But when it comes right down to it, overcrowding of animals is the result of humans taking away their living space. So, mankind is still guilty. We take away the animals living space and all of a sudden their population is exploding, then we think we are so noble for culling them to live in that smaller space. Any way you try to look at it, we are responsible.
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Post by mike454 on Jun 29, 2020 17:50:54 GMT -5
Sorry to rain on your parade here but just throwing in my personal feelings, I would not have a pair of elephant ivory grips on a gun. I don't care where they came from, an elephant had to die for them. To know that a big majestic animal like an elephant died because of that just doesn't sit well with me. You guys can do what you want. As I said it's just my feelings. There are enough materials available now that really look like ivory. A guy with a pair of ivory grips may feel somewhat superior just saying "These are real elephant ivory grips" but to me that just makes it worse. To my way of thinking, buying grips made years ago from an elephant that was killed decades ago has little to no bearing on elephants today. I suppose your argument can be used to condemn people who own pianos, billiard balls, musical instruments, or silver tea services with ivory on them. For that matter anyone who ate a tuna sandwich before 1990 has the blood of dolphins on their hands. Or taken even farther (if that's possible) people who have grips or other items made of tropical wood would have potentially played a part in the destruction of rain forests and its inhabitants. If one spends enough time thinking about it, they're liable to get a headache. Those are my feelings and are certainly no more valid than yours. For the record, it would take a lot more than owning a few pairs of ivory grips to make me feel superior to anyone, but I think I just have low self esteem.
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rhino
.30 Stingray
Posts: 193
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Post by rhino on Jun 30, 2020 10:59:05 GMT -5
Ivory doesn't really do it for me, harvested legally or not. It carries a stigma with it and has for many years. Keep in mind poachers take the Ivory, yet when an elephant is legally culled/hunted as much of the animal is used as possible. Meat, Ivory, leather etc. If someone wants real Ivory, go for it. If not, fine. I eat tuna with or without dolphin meat I don't really care. I eat beef, hell I'd eat horse if it's available I don't discriminate I use both ugly and cute animals as food. Environmentalists used to throw dye on people that wore fur because an animal died for fashion, I've never heard of the environmentalists throwing dye on some biker at Sturgis or Daytona because they wear leather. If a country wants to exploit their natural resources go for it, that's what the United States did in the past. Just my opinion.
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caryc
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,039
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Post by caryc on Jun 30, 2020 18:28:32 GMT -5
Ivory doesn't really do it for me, harvested legally or not. It carries a stigma with it and has for many years. Keep in mind poachers take the Ivory, yet when an elephant is legally culled/hunted as much of the animal is used as possible. Meat, Ivory, leather etc. If someone wants real Ivory, go for it. If not, fine. I eat tuna with or without dolphin meat I don't really care. I eat beef, hell I'd eat horse if it's available I don't discriminate I use both ugly and cute animals as food. Environmentalists used to throw dye on people that wore fur because an animal died for fashion, I've never heard of the environmentalists throwing dye on some biker at Sturgis or Daytona because they wear leather. If a country wants to exploit their natural resources go for it, that's what the United States did in the past. Just my opinion. Please know that I'm not condemning anyone because they own a pair of ivory grips. It makes no difference if the animal died 100 years ago or one day ago. Dead is dead. With me, I guess it's just that as I said, an elephant is such a large majestic animal. I can't help feeling the way i do. You guys are free to feel and do as you please. Maybe with me being a grip maker and being able to make grips for my guns out of any material that I can get has something to do with the way that I feel. There are lots of nice choices out there without choosing ivory. How would you feel if MS13 members starting killing people just to get a tooth to put on a chain around their necks like a charm bracelet?
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Post by pacecars on Jun 30, 2020 18:40:02 GMT -5
Ivory doesn't really do it for me, harvested legally or not. It carries a stigma with it and has for many years. Keep in mind poachers take the Ivory, yet when an elephant is legally culled/hunted as much of the animal is used as possible. Meat, Ivory, leather etc. If someone wants real Ivory, go for it. If not, fine. I eat tuna with or without dolphin meat I don't really care. I eat beef, hell I'd eat horse if it's available I don't discriminate I use both ugly and cute animals as food. Environmentalists used to throw dye on people that wore fur because an animal died for fashion, I've never heard of the environmentalists throwing dye on some biker at Sturgis or Daytona because they wear leather. If a country wants to exploit their natural resources go for it, that's what the United States did in the past. Just my opinion. Please know that I'm not condemning anyone because they own a pair of ivory grips. It makes no difference if the animal died 100 years ago or one day ago. Dead is dead. With me, I guess it's just that as I said, an elephant is such a large majestic animal. I can't help feeling the way i do. You guys are free to feel and do as you please. Maybe with me being a grip maker and being able to make grips for my guns out of any material that I can get has something to do with the way that I feel. There are lots of nice choices out there without choosing ivory. How would you feel if MS13 members starting killing people just to get a tooth to put on a chain around their necks like a charm bracelet? I love Elephants but there is no way you can compare killing a human to an Elephant.
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Post by nolongcolt on Jun 30, 2020 18:42:23 GMT -5
Ivory doesn't really do it for me, harvested legally or not. It carries a stigma with it and has for many years. Keep in mind poachers take the Ivory, yet when an elephant is legally culled/hunted as much of the animal is used as possible. Meat, Ivory, leather etc. If someone wants real Ivory, go for it. If not, fine. I eat tuna with or without dolphin meat I don't really care. I eat beef, hell I'd eat horse if it's available I don't discriminate I use both ugly and cute animals as food. Environmentalists used to throw dye on people that wore fur because an animal died for fashion, I've never heard of the environmentalists throwing dye on some biker at Sturgis or Daytona because they wear leather. If a country wants to exploit their natural resources go for it, that's what the United States did in the past. Just my opinion. Please know that I'm not condemning anyone because they own a pair of ivory grips. It makes no difference if the animal died 100 years ago or one day ago. Dead is dead. With me, I guess it's just that as I said, an elephant is such a large majestic animal. I can't help feeling the way i do. You guys are free to feel and do as you please. How would you feel if MS13 members starting killing people just to get a tooth to put on a chain around their necks like a charm bracelet? We already have that don't we? That's sort of a silly point and rather insulting really. As above letting emotions get in the way of logic is detrimental to the discussion. Elephants live and die like everything else on the planet. When they die, they leave everything on the ground whether its bones or their teeth. My point was it would greatly benefit the ele population if legal trade in ivory was allowed again, instead of this constant problem of poaching supplying the illegal trade for all the wrong reasons, then burning millions of dollars worth of ivory that could be used to help the elephant instead of lining the pockets of crooked politicians. Elephant are legally hunted in a number of countries, the main prize being the ivory as has always been. It is the main part of the trophy, though as noted above nothing of the animal is wasted, especially in protein starved Africa. Should deer and elk hunting be banned because the main trophy are the antlers? How about pigs? What about sheep and goats, should hunting of them be banned? Need to think a little bit past the end of ones nose on these subjects and not just react in emotion.
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Post by bogusbill on Jun 30, 2020 19:48:28 GMT -5
Eat hamburger, chicken, bacon or fish? I feel sorry for all critters too but I aint into grazing either. I never was into varmint shooting but I never owned a ranch. I was brought up hunting, used to work for the NPS and a state conservation dept for 3 years when I was young. Truth is I haven't hunted in quite a few years but there again both my wives wouldn't eat bambi plus I am old and crippled up now. Except for snakes & rats I ate everything I shot. I never was a trophy hunter. I figure if I can hit a tin can at a 100 yards or whatever distance I could have shot a deer or whatever. I have a gun with ivory and a few with stag but they were bought used. Think I did buy a few new stag. Beats collecting tattoo`s and making lamp shades out of them.
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Post by bradshaw on Jun 30, 2020 20:12:44 GMT -5
A discussion of hunting fits. Personal attack does not fit. To articulate one's belief without denigrating a different view shows strength. David Bradshaw
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Post by rangersedge on Jul 3, 2020 7:34:54 GMT -5
I've never been there to see it first hand; but I've read about it quite a bit and 470Evans' statements about benefits of / consequences of not allowing hunting & import coincide with what I've read. Makes logical sense too.
I've personally seen it on a much smaller scale with regard to fur. Raccoons and some other critters used to be considered prized game animals when their pelts brought a good price. Now they're considered nuisances / pests, killed indiscriminately, & left to rot. Instead of promulgating a natural, renewable resource, we're all wearing man made synthetics the making of which probably isn't great for the environment.
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Post by pacecars on Jul 5, 2020 22:33:47 GMT -5
Back on topic with a slight curve to other woods. I am having a knife made with some exhibition Desert Ironwood and got to thinking that it might make a nice grip if I can find a close match to this:
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dhd
.327 Meteor
Posts: 941
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Post by dhd on Jul 6, 2020 6:01:44 GMT -5
That's some nice figure there. I understand that it's like iron to work 🤣🤣🤣
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