|
Post by webber on Apr 18, 2020 22:38:02 GMT -5
Now lets look at this. At one inch a degree is.017453277 inches. At two inches it is twice that at three inches it is three time .017453277 so on and so forth. That is linear. Those two bullets are 1.135 inches apart at 10 yards. How can the edges of the bullets move to a smaller distance apart if it is linear?
|
|
|
Post by flyingzebra on Apr 18, 2020 23:19:34 GMT -5
Now lets look at this. At one inch a degree is.017453277 inches. At two inches it is twice that at three inches it is three time .017453277 so on and so forth. That is linear. Those two bullets are 1.135 inches apart at 10 yards. How can the edges of the bullets move to a smaller distance apart if it is linear? If the outside edges of the holes are 1.135", edge to edge, then they are the quantity 1.135 - (2 x 0.429) inches apart, or 1.135 - 0.858 inches apart, which is 0.277" *But* The way to look at this is center to center, and someone else has already covered that.
|
|
Shakey
.327 Meteor
Central Arkansas
Posts: 544
|
Post by Shakey on Apr 19, 2020 2:52:39 GMT -5
Lets try it this way......
If we are going to go with "linear" we must do it all the way.
Given that a 10 yard "outside" measurement of 1.135" translates to 11.35" at 100 yards we should also consider that the 10 yard "inside" measurement of 0.275" ( 1.135" -(0.430 x 2)) translates to 2.75" at 100 yards.
Hmmmm…. The only way that a 100 yard group with an "outside" measurement of 11.35" and an "inside" measurement of "2.75" can happen is with a bullet diameter of 4.30" ((11.35-2.75) / 2).
But,... if we are shooting a 4,30" bullet, ...there is NO way we can shoot a 1.135" "outside" measured group at 10 yards, …or, at any other distance. Our measurement system falls down.
The center-to-center method for measuring accuracy does have it's limitations ( eg. a hit with a .45 could be a miss with a .22) but it is much more realistic in comparing results at different ranges than outside-to-outside.
By the way, .....I am VERY impressed with anyone who can hold an offhand 7-8" group at 100 yards with a 2.75" barrel revolver.
|
|
|
Post by webber on Apr 19, 2020 6:20:30 GMT -5
It is simple. The "group" of shots are enclosed by a circle of 1.135 inches diameter. No other way around it. They can not be enclosed by a circle any smaller. A 1.135 inch circle cannot be made smaller as the distance increases if one believes in degrees, minutes and seconds or radians. Or the belief that they do so in a linear fashion. When I shoot a group of shots I want to know the area in which they stay. That is the only thing that means anything to me as I don't shoot half bullets so I can measure center to center. The "group" of shots are congregated in a certain area that can be enclose by a circle. such as a circle made by a pie plate, paper plate or on some days a lid off a 55 gallon drum. Each and everyone do as they wish. If measuring center to center makes one feel a little bit better about their shooting I can understand. I used to use that method myself until I started looking at the whole "group" of shots and the full containment of them. Now with that being said I am not posting anymore on this subject lest I get jumped on by a moderator as being a rabble rouser to the more established ones which isn't my intent.
|
|
|
Post by boolitdesigner on Apr 19, 2020 10:05:24 GMT -5
What you're talking about is a deception. All four of those lines diverge from each other. As distance increases, the O.D. lines diverge faster than the lines that denote bullet centers/MOA value. All of this has NO meaning past 10 yards...... much like the discussion involving RPM matters that relate to velocity.
|
|
|
Post by junebug on Apr 20, 2020 9:33:06 GMT -5
We are getting way off base here. The original question was has anyone ever tried this.It is a worthwhile target. I printed out 4 aces the other day and tried with my 44 NO JOY FOR ME!
|
|
|
Post by bula on Apr 20, 2020 9:52:09 GMT -5
Agreed, shooting a little bitty group is one thing, putting that little bitty group exactly where you want it, another BIG step beyond.
|
|
Fowler
.401 Bobcat
Posts: 3,578
|
Post by Fowler on Apr 20, 2020 11:26:04 GMT -5
Ok so I social distanced yesterday on a buddies back 40 and tried the Keith challenge. Depending on ones definition I succeeded with a couple different guns and didn't get it done with a bunch of guns (I was curious how many different guns I could do it with).
First off I was fortunate to have a similar playing card so I made some photocopy targets with 4 cards on a sheet of paper. The first challenge is this is a trick spade to see, The spade is medium sized and surrounded with small print of roses and the card companies name under it. My 47 year old eyes started going down hill a couple of years ago so the target, even at 10 yards is extra fuzzy. When I shot indoors I used to use a target that had 4 1" black squares and they are way easier to focus on than that fizzy spade.
So if we define as this as being successful is to keep 6 shots with the centers of the bullets all in the spade then I did it with my Harton #5 44sp shooting 255gr Keiths over 8.2gr of Power Pistol right at 1000fps. And I succeeded at it with a Bisley Single Seven shooting a 130gr Hammer bullet over a very stiff load of H110 in the 327, actually kept 7 rounds on the spade.
I wasn't able to cut the center out of the card as Elmer was able to do but then that I think was more chance than anything else. I don't shoot a lot of 10 yard bullseye work anymore, it is very challenging all the same, you cant cheat with it even at 10 yards, perfect sight picture with a perfect trigger pull and follow through are absolutely required to succeed.
If I wasn't locked out of photobucket Id post pics but it was an enjoyable way to social distance for the afternoon, it was needed.
|
|
308
.240 Incinerator
Posts: 1
|
Post by 308 on Apr 21, 2020 11:00:05 GMT -5
375 Atomic,
I don't meant to hi jack a thread, but I would like more info on your 327 in a single 7 and your 130 cast boolit. I too have a 327 single 7 and a 135 gr cast bullet. I would like a good shooting load in it like yours. What accuracy do you see with yours at 25,50 and 100 yds. You may pm me if we shouldn't take this excellent post on a tangent.
I too intend to try my hand at this grand master's challenge. Thanks
|
|
|
Post by tonyrumore on Apr 22, 2020 14:04:48 GMT -5
wow is that offhand? nice work
Yes, offhand, standing, two hand hold.
I actually entered a Bullseye match with the Auto Mag back in 1989. First time ever shooting Bullseye and I won the match. It was just a local competition though.
I also fired two, back-to-back 5 shot groups at FIFTY YARDS and both went under 1.5". But that was hand held on a sand bag with my custom Richard Niemer Safari Arms 40 Super 1911.
Now days, my eyes are so bad, I'll just be happy to get 'em in the black. The older I get, the better I was.........
Tony Rumore Tromix
|
|
|
Post by junebug on Apr 22, 2020 16:10:48 GMT -5
Well Tony that was some FINE shooting.
|
|
|
Post by reflex264 on Apr 22, 2020 18:02:17 GMT -5
Can I cheat and use a auto? This is 4 shots at 25 and yes I adjusted the sights after making sure it shot the load. 460 Rowland with 185gr Nosler.
|
|
|
Post by reflex264 on Apr 22, 2020 18:06:56 GMT -5
Actually I will try it with one of my specials. My Bisley 5 1/2" or 441 Taurus.
|
|
|
Post by ddixie884 on Apr 23, 2020 15:24:06 GMT -5
I'll bet EMK was standing tall and had his left hand in his pocket when he did that with a full bore Bullseye load and his full weight swc. Thats classic. JMHO-YMMV
|
|
|
Post by giblett on Apr 23, 2020 20:19:30 GMT -5
I tried this evening need more practice.
|
|