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Post by magnumwheelman on Oct 4, 2018 7:43:33 GMT -5
So... I do love my big bore revolvers... a couple 480 Rugers have been a couple of my newest, as well as the creation of the 476 WTH custom... my retired machinist buddy is getting older & likes to keep busy, but is starting to look for less challenging projects... He was hoping or at least intrigued about using a big "bigger" revolver & fitting a 5 shot 56-50 centerfire cylinder... as a companion gun for the Spencer Rifle... this is a .510" revolver length cartridge, but the rim size for the rifle round is proving to be more of a challenge than my buddy seems to be able to overcome... ( we're still looking at a few possible options, but it's looking like a daunting task... The gun we're trying to use right now is an Interarms Virginian Dragoon, & we're looking at fitting a 5 shot cylinder... we have a chunk on .510 barrel... chances of it happening are getting less, as each option gets scratched... which brings about a couple questions... some of these 50 calibers are built on Rugers, & like sized guns & it's the Rugers that I'm most familiar with... I know the big builders are capable of a lot of magic... but I'm wondering about strength or durability of the hand / ratchet contact surfaces, & the ability of these boomers to stay in time over a lifetime of firing... concessions need to be made to work around the rim diameters, hands have to be reconfigured... I'm guessing that on nearly any 50 cal Ruger custom, there is likely actually less contact surface between the hand & ratchet, because of the rim interference into that space??? so... just to confirm, I'm in no way criticizing these masters of metal... they are truly craftsmen... just wondering about the extra weight of a heavily "leaded" cylinder, & tight fitting of the ratchet / hand area I have one 50 built on a Ruger Super Blackhawk, but that is a 5 shot 50 A.E. ( no rim )... since we have this chunk of of .510 barrel, I'm back to thinking about the 50 A.E case, & building a wildcat... going to a straight case, & a 510 bullet instead of a .501... I'm thinking I could use 500 Linebaugh loading dies & a A.E. shell holder, & am thinking I should be able to get into the 800-900 fps range??? if we decided to go that route, with a good taper crimp I have a couple of the related case dimensions here, you may find interesting???  |
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Post by squigz on Oct 4, 2018 8:34:10 GMT -5
I mean, do you want something that hasn't been done before or do you want something that you can just do?
If you want something that hasn't been done on a normal basis, then I'd go after the 50 AE case and making it straight walled like you're saying so it accepts the .510 bullets.
Otherwise, like mentioned in the other threads/comments about this build, why not just go with a 50 short? The 500 Linebaugh trimmed down would give your buddy something easy to build upon since you can just use the already existing rims to seat the bullet rather than trying to set it up on a rimless cartridge.
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Post by magnumwheelman on Oct 4, 2018 8:51:38 GMT -5
I guess that adds another option... I thought last I looked, that cases for the 500 Linebaugh were "hard to get" but I see they are listed as in stock at Starline right now... I don't have a reamer for any of these except the standard 50 A.E. so at that point, there is no advantage to any of the listed... I was also thinking the 500 Special, ( this is the cut down 500 S&W .501 ) but I don't have any .501 barrel stock right now...
I have a 50-70 Martini single shot rifle, so I could probably find a .510 bullet that would work for both guns if I went the route of the 50 Special ( cut down Linebaugh cases ) I could probably fire those in the 50-70 rifle ( thinking keeping pressures sane for both ) still thinking a 50 special ( the .510 cartridge ) ... I've not found that brass available... but if cutting it down myself, it could be trimmed to make maximum use of the cylinder length of the project gun... it does make for a lot of busy work, as I like to have 500 cases for each gun... so buying a correct case does have it's advantages
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Post by Ken O'Neill on Oct 4, 2018 8:53:16 GMT -5
The 50 AE was originally designed as a straight wall .510 then reduced to a .500, so it is possible. You could get a lot more than 8-900 fps from such a case, I believe. Bob Baker did a lot of experimentation with the AE case and special dies in an attempt to straight wall the case enough to get a roll crimp and eliminate the potential for bullet creep. A taper crimp is going to limit potential velocity due to creep, unless one uses an "adhesive".
Me? I like a rim or WE type precision belt, so I can use a roll crimp.
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Post by squigz on Oct 4, 2018 9:16:36 GMT -5
Now you have me thinking. Ken brings up a good point with the 50WE and having a belted magnum.
I did some googling, not much since I'm supposed to be working.. and I thought, what if you based the cartridge off a already existing belted magnum rifle that you would just run through a sizer? My first thoughts where the 416 rem mag, but that doesn't have the inside diameter necessary to accept a .510 bullet, so my next check was the 460 weatherby, that works, though it will be a slightly tapered casing down to the bullet.
Now, I'm by no means experienced in any of these thought process of these fancy wild cat deals. So take what I say with a grain of salt and the fact I literally am day dreaming based off measurements.
Though, it would be cool to have something that would be able to duplicate the 50WE but with a .510 bullet.
50WTF?
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Post by magnumwheelman on Oct 4, 2018 9:35:25 GMT -5
a Belted case still has to clear the ratchet to slide into the chamber... so I'm not sure of the advantage, except using an existing case, & being able to roll crimp... I don't think it has any fitment advantage over a rimmed case... of course one could also turn down the rim diameter some, depending on the parent case... however this wouldn't work with the original project 56-50 case, as to be a true companion gun, the cartridges would need to work in both guns... which brings up that the rifle could be modified to use a smaller rim... but then that would create issues with factory cases, & then not truly be a 56-50 centerfire... ... & I'm trying to keep my mind on work as well... but big guns are so much more interesting  |
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Post by pacecars on Oct 4, 2018 12:26:28 GMT -5
Now you have me thinking. Ken brings up a good point with the 50WE and having a belted magnum. I did some googling, not much since I'm supposed to be working.. and I thought, what if you based the cartridge off a already existing belted magnum rifle that you would just run through a sizer? My first thoughts where the 416 rem mag, but that doesn't have the inside diameter necessary to accept a .510 bullet, so my next check was the 460 weatherby, that works, though it will be a slightly tapered casing down to the bullet. Now, I'm by no means experienced in any of these thought process of these fancy wild cat deals. So take what I say with a grain of salt and the fact I literally am day dreaming based off measurements. Though, it would be cool to have something that would be able to duplicate the 50WE but with a .510 bullet. 50WTF? It was a necked down .460 Wby so I could see it used for the .50 |
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Post by squigz on Oct 4, 2018 12:57:33 GMT -5
Now you have me thinking. Ken brings up a good point with the 50WE and having a belted magnum. I did some googling, not much since I'm supposed to be working.. and I thought, what if you based the cartridge off a already existing belted magnum rifle that you would just run through a sizer? My first thoughts where the 416 rem mag, but that doesn't have the inside diameter necessary to accept a .510 bullet, so my next check was the 460 weatherby, that works, though it will be a slightly tapered casing down to the bullet. Now, I'm by no means experienced in any of these thought process of these fancy wild cat deals. So take what I say with a grain of salt and the fact I literally am day dreaming based off measurements. Though, it would be cool to have something that would be able to duplicate the 50WE but with a .510 bullet. 50WTF? It was a necked down .460 Wby so I could see it used for the .50 I remember seeing you post on this awhile back, very interesting to see those cartridges being made, but I'm not going to be the one to shoot them when they're pushing that much lead at that velocity. I was just looking for inside measurements closest to the rim to see if it would measure out well enough to fit a .510 bullet. Nothing more than a thought in my head, but interesting that it's already been done. At least to some extent. |
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edk
.375 Atomic
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Post by edk on Oct 4, 2018 13:39:34 GMT -5
On these very pages it is often pointed out (that for most game) the .50 bore buys one such an advantage that high velocity is not necessary. Now again excluding things that bite back, big 5, etc. why has the 500 S&W Special not gained more ground? With the 44mag/45colt/480Ruger case length would it not be a 45 Colt/454 Casull or 480 Ruger/475Linebaugh relationship? Why not work with a cartridge that Starline is actively producing brass for instead of the modifying other cases to JRH? Is there much that most here cannot get done with a healthy load in a Ruger Bisley chambered in 45 Colt that the 454 will buy you? How much can the 475L accomplish that is beyond the 480R's ability? There is not a lot of load data out there but a quick check finds 335gr Trail Boss loads @ 1000fps. How could it not be possible to run a 400-440gr bullet to past 1000+fps without overpressure? It would seem this round could satisfy the needs of 90% of the shooters who aspire to own & shoot a .50 cal revolver.
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Post by magnumwheelman on Oct 4, 2018 14:33:51 GMT -5
EDK... this make a lot of sense... & the reason I mentioned 800-900 fps... if the A.E. case straightened out, can provide all the powder capacity needed, & those velocities will hold a .510 bullet with a firm taper crimp, it's sounding like just what I was looking for... as mentioned in another thread... I really like my 480 Alaskan better than my 454 Alaskan, as I feel I get the performance I was looking for, with out the abusive muzzle blast of the 454 in the same gun... another thing I said in another thread... I got the chance to shoot an 8.5" 500 S&W at the local range's out door range, during an event... 6 - 6" plates were put about 25 feet down range, & there were carpeted barriers between lanes... I might have heard the ring of steel on the 1st shot... but instantly all 6 plates toppled over... from the ferocious muzzle blast as I've gotten older, I don't have any issues with the honest recoil from a big bore... but I've come to understand ( at least for me ) that there is little to gain with the muzzle blast of a 60,000 PSI cartridge, except the awe of a young shooter... & I'm not out to impress anyone but myself  |
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dmad
.240 Incinerator
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Post by dmad on Oct 4, 2018 17:44:03 GMT -5
Would a .510 GNR do? Straight case so easier to reload.
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