.308 Black Rifle Urge

[AxeHandle]

Looking over some AR style .308s yesterday... Saw an Armalite AR10 and DPMS rilfes.... Hate to own up to it but a nice stack of GI 308 ball ammo is a driver... Any first hand experience with the .308 black guns out there? Magazines easy to come by?

[wickerbill]

BLACK RIFLE IN 308! Yep, I got one of those and it shoots great.

It just doesn't shoot as fast as the one your talking about.
My shooting partner had an Armalite and neither one of use could get it to feed right(and before you ask, yes we tried other magazines). The owner of the shop he bought it at offered to send it back or trade it out. He traded it for an Spr. M1A and man that thing will shoot.
Bill

[mitch1352]

I second Wickerbill. My PD's SWAT bubbas have tried several .308 AR's and have had issues with each: mainly magazine problems and some catastrophic failures, which means actual parts breakage. The AR system doesn't seem to work right with the pressure curve of a .308, although tuning the system can and does work. A riflesmith that I use said to keep my M1A's (I have 2 and want another). I saw a technician from Beta CMag at my outdoor range a little while back who was trying to ger a BetaMag to work on an AR10. The base rifle had been sent back to the factory twice for functioning problems that weren't related to the magazine. He commented on the insane "shootability" of the M14/M1A package. I would agree.

[AxeHandle]

Now that is an eye opener.... I danged sure don't need a problem child... One would have thought that the AR10 issues would have been worked out years ago...

[boxhead]

Minor "blackie" experience from the late 1970's with my brothers HK 91 which shot crazy accurate but made reloading the "banged" brass a bit of work. That said, the 308 in an early tang Ultralight was my go to rifle for years on California, Colorado and Wyoming mule deer and one bull elk. The 150 gr Partition just worked.

[the priest]

Axe,

I think Flatlander has/had an AR-10 for sale. Lightly used and LOTS of mags IIRC.

[Gary @ R&G]

Mine is a SA M1A Jungle carbine. 18" with Black synthetic stock.

[Markbo]

I have an Armalite AR10(T). Other than the fact that it is too heavy to carry around much, I have absolutely no complaints about it. Used in a blind or with a bipod - anywhere you don't have to lug it around - it is fantastic to hunt with and boringly accurate on paper.

It is fantastically accurate (1" 200 yard groups) and I have had no malfunctions that I can remember, let alone breakages. My only issue - and it is more of a curiosity really - is that mine is singularly partial to 165-168gr bullets. I never found a lighter or heavier load it would shoot nearly as well as the 168's.

Remember too that just likes it's littler brother, once you have that lower you have the ability to have multiple larger caliber uppers readily at hand.

[ronegg]

I have a Armalite AR-10 carbine with 16 1/2 inch barrel. I did have trouble with ejection, but after talking with some experts, notified Armalite and received the small spring that fixed the problem. Mine is very accurate and the short barrel works nice in deer blinds. It is set up for night pig hunting at the moment. No problem getting mags for it, uses modified M-14 type and I picked up extras from Armalite.

[wickerbill]

Axe, I e-mailed my cousen John at Quonico and he has a Stoner SR-25. He said he has had ZERO problems with it and it funtions 100% of the time as long as you follow the same rules used for the old m-16's.(KEEP IT CLEAN, KEEP IT WET)

Several years ago, I had an FN FAL that never faled to function. This rifle was one of the most accurate semi-autos I have ever shot. The only thing I didn't like about it, was what it liked to shoot. It liked delinked M-60 machine gun ammo. A couple of budies I shot with at the time had other rifle. Randy had a Galil and Robert had an ultra match M1(Smith). When I was shooting the above mentioned ammo, you couldn't tie these two rifles together and out shoot the FN. It also had a higher cyclic rate. The good thing about the FN gas system. I could tune the gas system to what I was shooting. I had it tuned so it would drop the empty cases at my feet. I souldn't have ever sold it.
Bill

[raven5]

Go with a PTR-91, which is essentially the HK-91 with a few tweaks/updates. Very accurate by nature, mags are literally a few bucks each (aluminum ones, steel ones are a bit more but still ridiculously cheap) and danged reliable. Not gas operated so nothing to compare there with either the FAL, M1 or AR type. That roller locked system was very ingenious. The FAL is reliable as all get out as well, but on average, not nearly as accurate. The current FAL 's produced by DS arms are more accurate on average than kit guns or builds, but the HK design is inherently an accurate rifle so it has the edge. I'd avoid the AR type. Nice rifles and all but mags are expensive, they can be finicky, and still have that 'must keep it clean and lubed like all get out' that the AR type suffers from due to the direct impingement design. The only drawback to the PTR is like was already said: the fluted chamber wreaks havoc on the brass.

[AxeHandle]

Thanks for all the recommendations guys... My itch may have eased a bit... The DPMS gun configured like Ron's AR10 didn't seem to stick to my hands so much yesterday... I'll have one one day but I've survived this time...

[wickerbill]

Axe, are you talking about the ones over on Larry's front wall. I liked the heavy long barreled rifles the day I was there.
Bill

[jeepnik]

I own exactly one "black rifle". Springfield Arms Scout/Squad. This civilianized version of the M-14 has a shorter barrel than the original. It carries nicely, and will out shoot me on my very best day ever.

[Tom Richardson]

My black rifle looks like a Copper Head.



The rest just look like this.