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Post by 2 Dogs on Nov 24, 2017 2:31:35 GMT -5
Together as a forum we have accomplished some very interesting and sometimes groundbreaking undertakings. We have pushed the envelope with existing cartridge designs, brought old cartridge designs back to life, and experimented successfully with a number of wildcat sixgun cartridge designs. We have almost to ourselves a guy who has taken all we have learned from Elmer Keith, Veral Smith, and other cast bullet pioneers and combined the very best into his 640 nose designs. More, we now know more about how to properly alloy a bullet than we ever did before. It is a rare day when I don't get a PM or a text or a phone call from a forum member regarding sixgun cartridges and loads. I have come to realize that the questions presented by the membership at all levels are from a more knowledgeable standpoint than ever before. We must be doing something right! Having said that, we have to be very careful that we do not scare the new guys off! So, what we want to try to do here is to basically use BobK as a springboard and try to pool all our knowledge and put it in one place.
I am going to chase Sixshot down and ask him to post his Alloy chart. That is good stuff and it needs to be somewhere it can easily be found.
I know I have a couple specific questions to ask Bob myself. For example, What would he consider the optimum bullet for the Single 7 327 Federal? I need to get a cylinder length for him and I will do that here pretty soon. Yes, I know the Miha 115 is the berries, but that doesn't keep me from asking if there is something better. We also are lacking a 32 caliber 85 grain 640 design although we have a 100 grainer and it is blisteringly accurate from my 32 H&R.
I gotta find Glenn and see if he will make this thread a sticky so we can have it for reference.
Thanks Bob! Hope we ask challenging questions!!
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paulg
.375 Atomic
Posts: 2,420
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Post by paulg on Nov 24, 2017 6:49:33 GMT -5
Pay attention here folks, this could potentially be one of if not the most important and informative threads ever posted since Al Gore invented the internet!! You’re looking at not only Bob’s vast knowledge and wisdom but also Fermin’s, Dick Thompson, David Bradshaw, John Taffin, Lee Martin, Glen Swaggert, Max Prassac and many more. Not just bullet design but performance of those designs in all kinds of handguns from mild to wild and across velocity spectrum. ALL FOR FREE!! IF we support this effort with the interest of a blood hound on a fresh track this information will benefit the novice to the expert with no stone unturned. Fermin is always preaching to his descipiles to help the other guy or gal and he leads by example. This is a huge undertaking, time consuming step on his part. I appreciate it. Git-R-Done boys!
P.S. Fermin, do you ever sleep?!
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Post by cherokeetracker on Nov 24, 2017 8:55:55 GMT -5
How does Bob feel about all this?
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Post by seancass on Nov 24, 2017 9:09:23 GMT -5
This forum badly needs a Wiki. A place for Concise information, such as charts and how-to's. A reference page, not for discussion. Basically the same thing as Lee Martin's pages, but even more info.
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Post by boolitdesigner on Nov 24, 2017 9:35:55 GMT -5
How does Bob feel about all this? Already was a done deal............... Fermin asked if I would be mad if He did this. Some of the things asked can probably be answered directly, some will require your input as to what you want or the the platform you're trying. I does depend on the powder you load up among other things. Fermin asked: What would he consider the optimum bullet for the Single 7 327 Federal? That would be something you don't have now because the Single 7 introduced a new cylinder length.... Max chamber bullet length is effected. The 135 gr. HP is a result of doing a bullet for max weight and powder space..... same for a shorter cylinder. |
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Post by bushog on Nov 24, 2017 10:01:40 GMT -5
That alloy info from Sixshot is magic. Most of the info can be found other places if you really dig and or do some calculations but as is usually the case Dick just puts it out there plain and simple. If Bob is willing he is certainly the resource for info on those -640 bullet designs...Yippee! What I'd like to see is a list of all the designs Bob has done for Miha and for that matter if Miha would send us a list of everything he has done it would be awesome. If Miha has the cherries already it makes getting the molds much faster. I still owe you a phone call Bob....quite remiss.... On another note..... I've found this very useful for mental masturbation about alloys if the simple route doesn't work for ya'..... castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=105952Then click on: Lead Alloy Calculators 070612.zip (from bumpo628 on the Castboolits Forum) |
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Post by boolitdesigner on Nov 24, 2017 10:44:15 GMT -5
What's on the net for hard alloy information is a good read. Those things involve what a several alloy constituents do as to hardness, but not what happens to them with time. That's fine if you are shooting solids....... that is a bullet that really doesn't expand much in which you depend on meplat diameter and overall power to do the job. That is quite useful for big heavy game and protection from things that bite, scratch and maul. Those are usually used in big handguns. That leaves an avenue open for "what can I do with a smaller lighter carry gun" or for "the less than powerful old calibers". You can use hollow points for those things if you use the right kind and an alloy proper for the job. Those different things deserve a good expanding bullet and that is where I come in to the discussion.
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Post by bushog on Nov 24, 2017 11:52:34 GMT -5
What's on the net for hard alloy information is a good read. Those things involve what a several alloy constituents do as to hardness, but not what happens to them with time. That's fine if you are shooting solids....... that is a bullet that really doesn't expand much in which you depend on meplat diameter and overall power to do the job. That is quite useful for big heavy game and protection from things that bite, scratch and maul. Those are usually used in big handguns. That leaves an avenue open for "what can I do with a smaller lighter carry gun" or for "the less than powerful old calibers". You can use hollow points for those things if you use the right kind and an alloy proper for the job. Those different things deserve a good expanding bullet and that is where I come in to the discussion. Oh Yeah! |
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Post by mart on Nov 25, 2017 12:14:05 GMT -5
Have you ever designed a .458 rifle bullet? I'd like to see an MP mold casting a .460 of 480-510 grains, wide meplat, gas checked with a double crimp groove to work in the 45-70 or in the 458s, i.e., Winchester, Lott, etc, including the hollow point pins.
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Post by boolitdesigner on Nov 25, 2017 15:23:57 GMT -5
Have you ever designed a .458 rifle bullet? Yes, several of them. Mainly for the 45-70 & 450 Marlins. I'd like to see an MP mold casting a .460 of 480-510 grains, wide meplat, gas checked with a double crimp groove to work in the 45-70 or in the 458s, i.e., Winchester, Lott, etc, including the hollow point pins. There is a problem with sizes for both. The .458 Magnum usually have cavernous throats and will take larger bullets than the 45-70's. Most 45-70's will take a 0.462" bullet (some of the newer crop of Marlins only will take a .460"). MP Molds did some for the 45-70 @ 0.460" & 0.462" weighing about 420 grains which are real shooters. The heavier weight would probably be a hindrance for the 45-70. |
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Post by mart on Nov 25, 2017 16:19:22 GMT -5
I am more concerned with a bullet for the 458 Winchester but thought it would make a good heavy bullet for the 45-70, hence the dual crimp groove.
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jsh
.327 Meteor
Posts: 884
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Post by jsh on Nov 25, 2017 18:54:32 GMT -5
Bob, "640" nose design. I think I know, but I don't like to assume things. Others may wonder also.
Jeff
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Post by boolitdesigner on Nov 26, 2017 0:11:52 GMT -5
I am more concerned with a bullet for the 458 Winchester but thought it would make a good heavy bullet for the 45-70, hence the dual crimp groove. To find the nominal diameter you need for your 458, take a case fired in that rifle with a reasonably full load, use a tapered punch and flare the case mouth so no vestige of crimp remains, then take a set of vernier or dial calipers... insert into case neck and expand until you can rotate the case with a smooth scraping fit and note the reading. That should be the diameter of bullet you should use. Give it a try and tell us what you got. |
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Post by boolitdesigner on Nov 26, 2017 0:16:44 GMT -5
Bob, "640" nose design. I think I know, but I don't like to assume things. Others may wonder also. Jeff The "640" is the nomenclature I used on a 44 bullet that nominally copied the 429640 Lyman bullet. The name was used a few times and "stuck". The actual design is proprietary to about 4 people, but all the fit and magic happens in front of the crimp groove and in the lube groove. Those two areas serve to enable a dynamic fit which increases accuracy potential. You have any doubts about that, then ask Fermin what it does for confirmation.  |
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Post by 2 Dogs on Nov 26, 2017 0:55:46 GMT -5
Who me? Well, 640 was my badge number. I have found the 640 design to be a very forgiving bullet platform. In the Cramer style molds, it is a credible solid, plenty of meplat but not too much combined with enough shank even in the HP designs to shoot plumb through Bison. Speaking of the HP versions, I personally have pushed them to the limits of several cartridge envelopes with all the accuracy I could hold and destructive results on the receiving end. Plus, whenever I do play that 3 number lotto game those are my numbers. Bob’s a wizard and I’m OK with that. I just hope this “Ask Bob” thing works out really good because I don’t want him turning me into to a frog or anything!
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