Bigger caliber kill better?

[sixshot]

Well it's raining & blowing outside so I can't go take care of a Rock Chuck problem for a farmer that called yesterday. Plus another guy called & he has 2 Watusi bulls that needs culling but I don't have the right bullets & I'd probably get seriously injured so I just better stay inside! I do know that 2 elk will fill up a truck though & you didn't say what kind of "pistol" you killed that truck load of elk with, was it a revolver, if so that's impressive! Yup, if that truck was very big & you six gunned them I'm buying lunch at El Toro! As for an elk just being a big deer, we might have to discuss that a little more, that's a pretty big step up.

Dick

[jsh]

I saw this post and though it would start an interesting discussion.
Cast,jacketed,solid,fast or slow big or small, does not replace proper placement.
I have seen some guys with big bore rifles going to Africa, after seeing them shoot, I hoped the came back in one piece. Flinch, does not even describe it.
I have seen guys use a rifle with a brake, the blast gave them the jitters.
Use enough gun comes to mind. But one must be able to shoot it well first and foremost.

I have come to like the bigger bores. You can always load down. It is hard to load up,safely.

I look at revolver as a tool box full of tools. Some folks have a pair of pliers. Some have a screw driver. Others have an adjustable wrench. Then others have a wrench of the proper size for everything.

So the right tool for the job is the way I see it.

The thousand pound club, heck there for a minute I thought I was in it. Then realized we were not talking about our lead stash.

I quit planting peanuts In the garden, so the rogue elephants have not been a problem.
The neighbor got rid of the goats, so no Chupacabra problems

I have been seeing those ground hog critters this past week. Grass is to talk to get to them.
And, them blasted possum on the half shell have been showing up on a way more regular basis this year.
They are moving north Dick, you better be prepared the Boy Scout I know you are.
Jeff

[potatojudge]

To answer your question, there is, somewhere in the world, some bit of game that'll be dropped better with a 500JRH compared to a 45 Colt, I have no doubt.

They both sound like neat guns. Maybe a pic of them both could help us decide which you should sell ?

[tradmark]

Aaaah the subject of watusi is near and dear to my heart. Very few animals more likely to charge than damn near anything. One charge and one close call out of six hunting. Might look like a cow but its eminently more dangerous than anything in the mountains short of possibly a grizzly bear. Then again dangerous game is where you find it. My watusi and water buff hunts were much more dangerous then my Cape buff hunts.

I've killed over 15 elk with a sixgun from .41 mag to .500L and have killed over 40 oryx with a sixgun that are much tougher than elk. That does not count all the elk I've killed with my kiddos with their sixguns. They're much harder to put down. I'm pretty sure that dangerous game is an acquired taste and quite frankly scares people. I get it. Bison arent really dangerous. Watusi are used to being hunted are. Just like water buff.

Part of my passion for this is exemplified by Mark Sullivan basically proving every big game hunting writer on the subject of Cape buff hunting was full of crap. Most proved they'd never seen a real charge. Perhaps Sullivan was emphatic, arrogant, and offended of many peoples' feminine side but he was there and did that so to speak and proved a lot of points and dispelled years of myth. I'm tired of people that have maybe killed 2 or 3 DG animals spouting dogma without having done it. Sooooooo we do it. It's simple. Then you know, and once again I issue the offer to simply show up and get on the ground with a dangerous animal where its you and another with nothing but your sixgun and your skills to bail you out. Offer still stands.

[whitworth]

This is the north end of a Watusi that attempted to turn me into a grease stain on the ground a couple of years ago. As you can see, he is much better equipped for hand-to-hand combat than I am. Not something to be toyed with in my humble opinion, irrespective of "cow in the pasture" characterization by some (no, I'm not pointing any fingers here).

[magman]

That bull is awesome. I'd really like to hunt one of those. I guess I need to start running, so I can out run the person hunting with me.

[sixshot]

tradmark, that's very interesting about those Watusi's having such a nasty attitude, sounds like a Utah fisherman when you invade "his" honey hole in Idaho! Also very impressive that you have six gunned 14 elk, where did you take them? Not many can make that claim. I've also taken 14 but 3 of mine were with single shots & the other 11 were with revolvers from the 41 maggie up to the 45 colt. I lost 13 years because I was coaching high school football or the count would have been higher, pretty much missed the entire seasons.
Doing the math I really can't justify traveling 1600 miles each way to Hondo, Texas (been there) to whack a cow inside a high fence when I can drive 5 minutes in any direction from Soda Springs & pay market price to anyone of 50 different ranchers & shoot some prime beef. I'd hit it with a couple of dirt clods to get the boxing match started, it would be as big as your Watusi & we would have a guaranteed charge, I've been chased more than once by range bulls!
Now, you guys could join ME up here, I would love to see Whitworth try to out run one, we can eat at El Toro every day & me & Whit will have a Huckleberry milk shake eating contest, how can you lose.......tick, tick, tick! We could call this hunt, "What's your beef"

Dick

[tradmark]

Well sounds good Dick, and we may take you up on it, but the reason we do the Hondo hunt is twofold as I can drive two miles and shoot any cow I want. 1) the foliage is similiar to South Africa and unlike barnyard animals these are hunted regularly and are pretty salty and wary. Yes we could drive around and shoot 'em in a high-rack truck but that's just like hunting elk over a field - you know they're going to show up and you pop 'em from across the meadow. These are animals that are already hunted and salty and we get on foot with nothing but a sixgun and we get close. I dont know if Whit can outrun one or not but he stands his ground and puts 'em down when they come ala Mark Sullivan, and 2) I'm traveling to meet and compare notes with a lot of other passionate revolver hunters. We have developed friendships and get great hunting and video of it all. We compare notes and results and have good agreement and some disagreements but figure out what works when some mean bovine wants to stomp you. Kind of similar to Africa but at a fraction of the cost. Despite many mistaken assumptions being behind a high fence is not like shooting a barnyard animal. It's exciting and it gives those so inclined dangerous game experience that would otherwise cost well over 20 grand, and the excitement of having your life on the line for a fraction of the cost. The owner doesnt put out domesticated animals. One of the skinners hunted an elk with a bow and winged the brisket. He hunted hard for five more days and never saw the elk again. Just like in the wild. Its tiring and exhausting and many myths are destroyed and many commonly held truths are found to be myth. You'd need 100k dollars of Cape buff to get the info we get in five days. Definitely not barnyard cattle.

[whitworth]

While I run every morning at 5:00 AM, I didn't try to outrun that Watusi. That would have been foolish. However, I did give him a lead attitude adjustment that ended his desire to tickle me with his horns.


Dick, I can see that you have already made a judgement on what we do, and that's okay. We simply like to gather and action is the word of the day. There's time for sitting around and jaw-jacking when the sun goes down. Maybe I do this for reasons that differ from others, but not only is the data and experience we collect useful, it's just fun. Perhaps my idea of fun is at the extreme end of the sanity scale, but it's a great group of guys and a memorable time.

Also, this scratches an itch that normally takes tens of thousands of dollars, and a really long flight. While my free-ranging water buffalo hunt in Argentina was fantastic, it was anticlimactic. I didn't realize I just had to fly to Texas to nearly get stomped and gored!

Huckleberry shake? If we're eating Mexican, we should be drinking Mexican as well! How are the margaritas at El Toro?

[tradmark]

As for my elk, I have hunted elk every year for the last 20 years. I started with my first Raging Bull handgun kill in the mountains outside of Angel Fire, New Mexico amd draw NM when I can and if I dont draw I go to the unit just east of Ouray, Colorado. Foot or horse only and not for the faint of heart. I have not been successful every year but about 75% thus far and as it's otc tags there, we get to go ever year and since the units sit in the high San Juans amongst the fourteeners it never sells out. We are usually the only hunters not on horses or mules and do it on foot. Fun, scenic but just doesnt fill the bug I get for dangerous game!

[magnumwheelman]

I wish I hadn't lost my local source of buffalo... I was learning a lot... this one shot with a 45-70 single shot, & actually "finished off" with a GP-100 with 180 grain solids

we were getting to take 1 buffalo a year, & I was splitting it with MRS cousin... shooting every other year... ( I got to do it twice ) by that time they wanted to change over the land program, & sold off the rest

[whitworth]

Jun 14, 2017 14:43:37 GMT -5 magnumwheelman said:

I wish I hadn't lost my local source of buffalo... I was learning a lot... this one shot with a 45-70 single shot, & actually "finished off" with a GP-100 with 180 grain solids

we were getting to take 1 buffalo a year, & I was splitting it with MRS cousin... shooting every other year... ( I got to do it twice ) by that time they wanted to change over the land program, & sold off the rest

Awesome photo!

[magnumwheelman]

Thanks... hard part of this shoot ( careful to point out it was not a "hunt" ) was twofold... 1st identifying the tag number they wanted shot, out of the rest of the herd & then....

... getting the rest of the herd away from the killed animal... ( they would stand around the shot animal. butting it to get it to stand up, for about a half hour... kind of like what I've seen ( on TV ) of Elephant hunts...



custom Martini in 45-70... which BTW... has an octagon barrel however my GP-100 did not

[bigbrowndog]

WOW!!!!
So let's see what we've heard and learned here,.......ACow is a Bovine is a Buffalo, is a Cape Buffalo, is a Water Buffalo, is a Range Bull.....unless it's from TEXAS!!! And a Elk is a Deer is Not a BIG game animal, is a push over, is apparently easy to get a truckload of, is a whatever,......and hunting Dangerous Game is uhh,........Dangerous, especially in a high fenced "ranch" in TEXAS!!!...... unless you can stand your ground or out run your hunting partners.
Oh and Margaritas are better than milk shakes, unless of course your driving,........or in TEXAS!!!

BTW,.........I am a native born Texican!!!!

Hunting in Texas is and has always been different and misunderstood, we can do things here that can not legally be done anywhere else. Because of our different landscapes we can have timber/forest animals, desert animals, and African species. One can hunt Scandinavian, European, Asian, and African species and never have to leave a ranch, many ranches do this on very large parcels, others do so on much smaller parcels. Consequently, Texas gets bad press from the marginal or inadequate hunting operations and many hunters see all of the hunts taking place as "canned" or semi tame animals being shot for nothing more than a dollars paid by "trophy hunters"

Having guided bowhunters, and gun hunters on Texas ranches as well as done extensive destructive animal culling for ranchers. I have seen firsthand how "stories" of danger and difficulty are created in the minds of hunters trying to portray themselves as sportsman. Each hunt has its difficulties, or dangers, some are more perceived than actual depending on the participant. for some reason people seem to feel that by adding "DANGER" to the story of a hunt it makes the story better than someone else's or makes them better than the other hunter. It's simply manufactured DRAMA, like what we seem to be inundated with on our televisions and "reality TV"

I am not saying those here are doing this,.......if I felt that way I wouldn't be on this forum. I have zero tolerance for arrogant egos, and blowhards.

Big Game is an ambiguous term, it is whatever the user of the term decides it to be. It is for the OP to decide since they were the originator of the term for this topic.
I believe every "Big Game" animal in the world has been killed with nothing more than a LEAD bullet, or pointy stick for that matter. Is bigger BETTER? Is more penetration BETTER? Is more velocity BETTER? Is more accuracy BETTER? The simple reply is YES, but it needs more clarification in order to be a completely correct answer

Holy crap this post is long...........As we say in the firehouse,....the first story teller doesn't stand a chance!!!!!

Trapr

[whitworth]

I have never billed the JRH Holiday as anything more than live bullet testing. That it's done on foot with revolvers at spitting distance has created a number of dicey situations that could have ended badly had they been mishandled. None of which are manufactured by my imagination. I am not prone to hyperbole. That said, the information gleaned is invaluable for the person wishing to find out if his/her chosen caliber/load/bullet combination is up the task of let's say Cape buffalo or Asiatic water buffalo or whatever. One cannot honestly deny the value of putting bullet to flesh for testing purposes. Hunting? No, but it has afforded me the opportunity to see precisely how certain bullets, calibers and loads perform in a reasonably controlled environment.