Bigger caliber kill better?

[tradmark]

Well come show us. Itll be a good time. We love new people coming. Would love to see it. We were waiting for all shoulder shots to exit with cast. None did. Almost at times but none did thru both shoulders. Ive heard of it happening but havent seen it yet. Ive seen quartering too and quartering away thru both shoulders but never seen it. I would love to however. Absolutely not tongue in cheek

[sixshot]

You guys have got it all wrong! I told you what I've shot with cast & none of it has been as big as your Texas big stuff. I also know that when you get to that big stuff a solid like a Punch bullet will work better than my cast, I just haven't seen it, think I've said that twice now. The range bulls we killed were suffering, we weren't trying to "test" bullets, we were trying to put them out of their misery, and we did....with cast bullets. I'll say it "again" I'll leave the heavy advice to those of you who have done it, I SAID i hadn't done it! Big, big animals can take a terrible pounding so if it were me doing the pounding I wound't shoot them in the hard places, I would shoot them in places where I could kill them, to me that makes more sense, I think.

Dick

[tradmark]

Yes, but dick, you obviously can shoot. In no way shape or for are you an average shot. I also am intrigued by your bullets and that is why i said what i said about showing up and showing me. I think i get going on this a little bit because i was a self taught man with big bore revolvers. There wasnt much i knew to read about this. I was pretty poor so to speak and what i had was basically residual boxing income saved for getting me and my wife thru school back when. The only thing i knew about big bore revolvers and that the 44 mag wasnt the biggest and most powerful no matter how many times clint eastwood said it. I read capatick as an inner city boy and read a few articles in the mags i subscribed to about the fa 454 casull when it first came out. I eventually splurged when the taurus experiment didnt work after pulling extra work while in school to get a fa 454. Everything i learned was self taught from which loads and bullets to use and not use. I eventually got a 500 linebaugh bowen gun and went down the cast path. Tried em in the 454 and the 500. I would agree with you, i learned to not shoot em in the hard stuff so to speak due to failures as i define them and learned that no matter how the ammo companies bill them as bone busting rounds. Sure they do but when i hit bone all were deformed, sheared or cracked. I did bullet tests over 10 years at my cousins cattle ranch on dead cows and bulls and went thru the relatively freshly dead cattle. I came to the conclusion i didnt know why anyone would use a cast over a corbon penetrator no matter the bore size advantage. Researched lynn thompson and what he had used and why. Then i discovered internet forums and learned what happens when you rock the boat of dogma. It was about that time i now had two things, 1) money to hunt all the stuff i wanted and an understanding wife that encouraged me to do so. I look at it as the best bullet wins all else being relatively equal. But experience is king and i want as much as possible. What bullets do what and im never above learning from others which is why i love the bovine bash whit puts together. A free exchange of ideas and live testing. And no one has to agree. Just put upur cards on the table and see what really works and is there a better option. I wanna see all points tested repeatedly. Thats the way one can truly answer the op's question. Ive seen your bullets end results. Im impressed and curious how big an animal are those soft cast appropriate for? Heck uou got guys like ernie proving long held beliefs on a 357 and what and at what ranges its effective. Changed alot of my views on it already. Whether youve shot lots of big stuff or not i value your input and would like to test or see your stuff tested!

So to the OP, you can make a smaller caliber perform like a larger one. Use a high quality expndable that will
Standup to abuse and penetrate. Theyre out there. However if the larger calibers are run hard and you do the same, the results are even more profound. Its just the availability of those bullets is lacking imho and thankfully theres monometal solids and punch bullets for them.

[500fksjr]

Jun 12, 2017 23:41:21 GMT -5 sixshot said:

You guys have got it all wrong! I told you what I've shot with cast & none of it has been as big as your Texas big stuff. I also know that when you get to that big stuff a solid like a Punch bullet will work better than my cast, I just haven't seen it, think I've said that twice now. The range bulls we killed were suffering, we weren't trying to "test" bullets, we were trying to put them out of their misery, and we did....with cast bullets. I'll say it "again" I'll leave the heavy advice to those of you who have done it, I SAID i hadn't done it! Big, big animals can take a terrible pounding so if it were me doing the pounding I wound't shoot them in the hard places, I would shoot them in places where I could kill them, to me that makes more sense, I think.

Dick

Thanks Dick,I was not trying to be disrespectful in any way/form just sharing my experiances...The punch bullet has a place just as caliber an size to the hunt do....fwiw

[500fksjr]

Jun 13, 2017 0:44:34 GMT -5 tradmark said:

Yes, but dick, you obviously can shoot. In no way shape or for are you an average shot. I also am intrigued by your bullets and that is why i said what i said about showing up and showing me. I think i get going on this a little bit because i was a self taught man with big bore revolvers. There wasnt much i knew to read about this. I was pretty poor so to speak and what i had was basically residual boxing income saved for getting me and my wife thru school back when. The only thing i knew about big bore revolvers and that the 44 mag wasnt the biggest and most powerful no matter how many times clint eastwood said it. I read capatick as an inner city boy and read a few articles in the mags i subscribed to about the fa 454 casull when it first came out. I eventually splurged when the taurus experiment didnt work after pulling extra work while in school to get a fa 454. Everything i learned was self taught from which loads and bullets to use and not use. I eventually got a 500 linebaugh bowen gun and went down the cast path. Tried em in the 454 and the 500. I would agree with you, i learned to not shoot em in the hard stuff so to speak due to failures as i define them and learned that no matter how the ammo companies bill them as bone busting rounds. Sure they do but when i hit bone all were deformed, sheared or cracked. I did bullet tests over 10 years at my cousins cattle ranch on dead cows and bulls and went thru the relatively freshly dead cattle. I came to the conclusion i didnt know why anyone would use a cast over a corbon penetrator no matter the bore size advantage. Researched lynn thompson and what he had used and why. Then i discovered internet forums and learned what happens when you rock the boat of dogma. It was about that time i now had two things, 1) money to hunt all the stuff i wanted and an understanding wife that encouraged me to do so. I look at it as the best bullet wins all else being relatively equal. But experience is king and i want as much as possible. What bullets do what and im never above learning from others which is why i love the bovine bash whit puts together. A free exchange of ideas and live testing. And no one has to agree. Just put upur cards on the table and see what really works and is there a better option. I wanna see all points tested repeatedly. Thats the way one can truly answer the op's question. Ive seen your bullets end results. Im impressed and curious how big an animal are those soft cast appropriate for? Heck uou got guys like ernie proving long held beliefs on a 357 and what and at what ranges its effective. Changed alot of my views on it already. Whether youve shot lots of big stuff or not i value your input and would like to test or see your stuff tested!

So to the OP, you can make a smaller caliber perform like a larger one. Use a high quality expndable that will
Standup to abuse and penetrate. Theyre out there. However if the larger calibers are run hard and you do the same, the results are even more profound. Its just the availability of those bullets is lacking imho and thankfully theres monometal solids and punch bullets for them.

Congrats on your experiances and adventure's...Keep going and enjoy !

[bula]

Not having stood over dead things larger than big river bottom whitetails, I'll not go beyond my earlier post. Way too many here vastly more experienced. My further thought is, Dennis did not mention game downed or hoped to hunt.. This open ended query led us straight to one ton bovine critters. 

[whitworth]

Jun 13, 2017 9:52:54 GMT -5 bula said:

Not having stood over dead things larger than big river bottom whitetails, I'll not go beyond my earlier post. Way too many here vastly more experienced. My further thought is, Dennis did not mention game downed or hoped to hunt.. This open ended query led us straight to one ton bovine critters. 

Big game is a relative term. On smallish whitetail I don't feel really big calibers buy you much more.

[bula]

Agree. Thats why am asking Dennis for further info. Mature bucks around here do often still weigh 200 lbs after field dressing. Mostly the north thing. Nephew from Miiddleburg Va. goes goofy over the size of our squirrels too ! Deer in Tampa area..

[whitworth]

Jun 13, 2017 10:11:13 GMT -5 bula said:

Agree. Thats why am asking Dennis for further info. Mature bucks around here do often still weigh 200 lbs after field dressing. Mostly the north thing. Nephew from Miiddleburg Va. goes goofy over the size of our squirrels too ! Deer in Tampa area..

Yeah, I'm familiar with Florida dogs, er deer!

[bradshaw]

Good jawbone going on here. Tradmark recounting his pursuit of bullet behavior... Max maintaining... Dick on living with the sixgun, the sixgun as sidearm.

When discussing performance, detail is gold. The average so-called trophy hunter doesn’t care about much beyond wrapping his hand around horns. He may be into equipment, camo, scents, scent-free soap, while never having tracked a deer in his life, let alone drilled one from the leather with a sixgun. But SINGLEACTIONS isn’t a hunting magazine. Singleactions caters to a span of handgun interests, with a focus on revolvers. A handgun is not the arm of efficiency, it is the arm of proficiency. Precisely because the handgun is limited in a way a firearm with buttstock is not, it must be handled with extra skill. The handgun’s size with absence of buttstock limits practical power.

The boys mentioned above signify a recognition that what we do with a handgun must be exact. Therefore, we have to know what we load in a sixshooter in order to trust it.
David Bradshaw

[bula]

"It is the arm of proficiency"  Now I like that right there. Having been a bowhunter and ingrained to shoot broadside shots only, this influenced my step into handgun hunting. Range limitations similar if talking open sights, carry length barrels and woodlands. But big bores and suitable bullets allow for far different shot angles. This why, I'll say, even down to deer, bore size and bullet choice is pertinent.

[sixshot]

I don't see anyone being disrespectful, I enjoy these discussions as much as anyone but they always lead to the "1000 Lb club" and I'm not a member, I said that from my first post. I've been killing a lot of game since the 60's & some of it has been close but I've never killed anything that big so that's why I said I'd leave it to the guys who have gone there.
So few of us ever get into that 1000 lb. category that it's pretty rare air for the rest of the handgun fraternity so we like to hear what works on those bull dozers you guys are tipping over down there in Texas! It just gets a little strange when I hear about bullets breaking, noses wiping off, smearing, etc. when they hit bone on some of our bigger animals that might not be quite a 1000 lbs because I have a lot of experience in that neighbor hood & no one can explain that to me because I can & have shown hundreds of photos over the years of game, some approaching that "magic" heavy weight range & some of those big, mature bull elk were shot through both front shoulders with an exit. Some people seem surprised by that, frankly I'm surprised that their were surprised!
Still, I concede that the really big, nasty stuff like Cape Buffalo, Asian Buffalo, Hippo, Elephant, etc. would benefit from a heavy jacketed solid, although I would kill them with my cast slugs just like Ross Seyfried did.
As far as my "good" shooting days, they are gone! Age, diabetes & glaucoma have taken care of that. I'm down to shooting with my left eye. I still hate using scopes but do it on a a few guns but stubborness is a hard thing to overcome I guess. I did whack a big Jackrabbit 2 days ago at 35-40 yds with iron sights with my 357 Maximum & a 170 gr. cast slug..... he ran about 120 inches!

Dick

[bula]

Four words.."Bigger caliber kill better". No mention of velo or bullet choices. Then, only two guns mentioned. No type or size of game mentioned. With only that..YES. The rest is fun and per the experienced guys chiming in, educational too. Dennis, your a bad boy..

[whitworth]

Jun 13, 2017 11:46:16 GMT -5 sixshot said:

I don't see anyone being disrespectful, I enjoy these discussions as much as anyone but they always lead to the "1000 Lb club" and I'm not a member, I said that from my first post. I've been killing a lot of game since the 60's & some of it has been close but I've never killed anything that big so that's why I said I'd leave it to the guys who have gone there.
So few of us ever get into that 1000 lb. category that it's pretty rare air for the rest of the handgun fraternity so we like to hear what works on those bull dozers you guys are tipping over down there in Texas! It just gets a little strange when I hear about bullets breaking, noses wiping off, smearing, etc. when they hit bone on some of our bigger animals that might not be quite a 1000 lbs because I have a lot of experience in that neighbor hood & no one can explain that to me because I can & have shown hundreds of photos over the years of game, some approaching that "magic" heavy weight range & some of those big, mature bull elk were shot through both front shoulders with an exit. Some people seem surprised by that, frankly I'm surprised that their were surprised!
Still, I concede that the really big, nasty stuff like Cape Buffalo, Asian Buffalo, Hippo, Elephant, etc. would benefit from a heavy jacketed solid, although I would kill them with my cast slugs just like Ross Seyfried did.
As far as my "good" shooting days, they are gone! Age, diabetes & glaucoma have taken care of that. I'm down to shooting with my left eye. I still hate using scopes but do it on a a few guns but stubborness is a hard thing to overcome I guess. I did whack a big Jackrabbit 2 days ago at 35-40 yds with iron sights with my 357 Maximum & a 170 gr. cast slug..... he ran about 120 inches!

Dick

I took this discussion down that road as the OP failed to define the game to be hunted. Plus, he gave us two choices, basically a .45 Colt or a .500 of one flavor or another. In 99.9% of anyone's needs here, the .45 Colt loaded properly will not falter. When game gets big (here goes that semantics thing again), or really big, there are better choices. There is nothing "magic" so to speak about that delineation, but animals that weigh that much tend to be structured to handle that additional weight and require different tools if some select shots are to be taken. Had the OP clarified with his first post, we wouldn't be going around in circles. However, I have found this discussion to be entertaining and civil. Yup, Ross did use a cast bullet on his Cape buffalo, but later, when he got his first .475, he was experimenting with rifle solids - Trophy Bonded Sledge Hammers to be exact (he shortened both ends trying to mimic the LFNs he was using). He found them to be vastly superior in performance, increasing penetration significantly, but had a devil of a time keeping the bullets in the cases. But, I guess that is neither here nor there, nor very germane to this discussion. It just goes to show that there may be better ways to skin a cat.

[tradmark]

No disrespect to anyone. None meant and i hope none taken. As far as seyfried goes i would imagine had he had punch bullets available he likely wouldve never ventured further than the 45 colt but we will never know. I think the magic 1000lb barrier goes its just where the really big animals start. Not all are created equal. A bison is mich more lightly constructed than a waterbuff. Both arent as tough as a cape buff but only the waterbuff is what id dangerous before its hit with a bullet. After that the cape buff takes the cake. Ive shot a truckload of elk with a pistol and they are kinda like big deer, no disrespect. Kinda like comparing a 120lb american bulldog and a 120lb german shepherd. Also when it comes to bovines anything at around 1000lbs is an immature animal. A 1500lb cape buff does not soak up lead like a 1800lb animal. Tissue density, connective tissue and bone is not the same so what whistles thru on the smaller more immature animal gets deformed and stops. It is what it is. I can kill anything with cast. I just prefer not to take dream hunts and watch peoples dreams and trophy fees run off into the african bush. Twice is enough and theyd have all used something else had there been these discussions present in print in on the net for them to have read before we went.