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Post by eagle1899 on Jan 29, 2017 20:45:45 GMT -5
Don't and haven't owned a black gun. I can get in too much trouble already.... +1...Lets look at our history a bit Muzzle Loaders an Breech Loaders...Breech Loaders an Lever Guns....Lever Guns an Bolt Guns...Bolt Guns an Semi Autos...Semi Autos an Full Autos...all at various dates in time all about same discussion...I still resist an ar over a single shot or good lever...FWIW Got all them covered but the full auto.... soon....
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2017 22:14:51 GMT -5
Now for the other side... I have AR15s, the number is not important. You can buy or build an AR15 to cover anything from 22 LR to approximately 45-70 ranges. You can buy them one piece at a time, of complete. As mentioned before, they've been around over 50 years, and are a far cry from the gun that originally sent the M14 into mothballs. I see a real similarity between the AR15 and the '03 Springfield of all things. Once they got into the civilian market there was no holding them back, and they can be found in any quality from a POS Bubba to a high end custom. I believe even Turnbull made a presentation model AR15. The accessory market is huge for the AR, with millions of dollars of sales annually.
I seem to recall many of the same points being raised in this thread being brought up when repeating rifles were introduced, and when the military went to semi-auto rifles just before WWII. There has never been a more versatile platform than the AR15. And when you add the larger AR10s & up, it becomes a total rout.
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Wasp
.30 Stingray
Posts: 312
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Post by Wasp on Jan 30, 2017 5:53:59 GMT -5
I like my Glock about as much as I like a 1911 and I'm usually on the sidelines or both sides of that argument when I see it come up, they both have their purpose in my opinion and one doesn't make the other obsolete, but a lot of AR guys act like a bolt or leaver gun is. The truth is that kind of like Glock, ARs don't fit everyone and I'm not just talking about it's capabilities or even preference for old vs new. When I hold an AR it just feels unnatural, from the pistol grip to the way my left wrist breaks to grip the forestock, I feel like im trying too hard. Sure I can shoot one, they are great from the bench, but IMO you shouldn't feel like you have to force it. To me a traditional style stock is much more comfortable to pull to shoulder as well as grip behind the trigger and up front. Even looking down the sights or through a scope is more comfortable to me. There's also the whole nostalgic ideal that appeals to me in a bolt gun, maybe in some way it's similar in reasons that I like revolvers, at least in a lot of respects. Although I can tolerate polymer or fancy kevlar stocks, there is nothing like checkered wood, man do I love how that feels. A few years ago I had a Colt 6920 LE SOCOM with a Troy quad rail, vertical grip, Magpul UBR stock, Ergo grip, Pmags, Burris PEPR with a Leupold Mk 1 scope, Tactical rifle case and 1k rounds of 5.56; I had over $2k in that AR and I just didn't like it. Know what I traded it for? A CZ 527 Carbine .223/5.56 that takes advantage of the ammo I had and the scope too but still feels like a traditional bolt gun. If I had to choose another AR I would probably get one with the Ares stock for the same reason. Sometimes: "The whole is greater than the sum of its parts."
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Post by eagle1899 on Jan 30, 2017 10:49:08 GMT -5
Interesting on the subject of grip angle to trigger interface. I've gone the other way and prefer a vertical grip on a bolt action for any thing other than a light weight hunting rifle. I have found that I can get a better hand to trigger grip interface with less than ideal support( offhand, vertical post, bipod and most other improvised positions) and maintain sight picture during recoil to view trace and impacts.
The great thing about this hobby of ours is that we are afforded so many options. It is really great!!!
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snappy
.30 Stingray
Posts: 421
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Post by snappy on Jan 30, 2017 14:26:29 GMT -5
I never "worked" with an AR and thought it would be a good idea to learn it's manual of arms. Found an excellent website called M4Carbine.net. M4C is like the battle rifle version of this site and is full of good information and real world experience. I bought an upper and assembled a lower to learn about it's workings, and then put a couple thousand rounds through it. The rifle was very accurate, light and downright fun to shoot. But I didn't really appreciate the AR platform until taking a good professional carbine course with it.
Learning how to "drive" the gun accurately was pretty central to that course, and the instructor timed us on everything we did. We ran stages that involved clearing malfunctions, reloading and shooting on the move, shooting from cover, transitioning to a sidearm and back, engaging targets at various distances while doing all of the above etc. By the end of the day I was in love with the AR platform.
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Wasp
.30 Stingray
Posts: 312
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Post by Wasp on Jan 30, 2017 15:05:23 GMT -5
Interesting on the subject of grip angle to trigger interface. I've gone the other way and prefer a vertical grip on a bolt action for any thing other than a light weight hunting rifle. I have found that I can get a better hand to trigger grip interface with less than ideal support( offhand, vertical post, bipod and most other improvised positions) and maintain sight picture during recoil to view trace and impacts. The great thing about this hobby of ours is that we are afforded so many options. It is really great!!! I completely agree. I said that over in the Hudson H9 thread, I love having options and innovation.
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Post by magnumwheelman on Jan 30, 2017 15:49:11 GMT -5
finally got a call back from Williams today... they are recommending the same rear target site as the Brownell's tech & I came up with... but admitted they had no extended base for a flat sided gun...
my main concern here is access to the Breach block pivot pin... I'll be ordering the lever gun target sight, then may have to machine a new base if conflicts arise...
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Post by BigBore44 on Jan 30, 2017 16:21:50 GMT -5
MagWm Can you tell me a little more about exactly what you have and are looking for?
I'd like to ask a couple fellas I know, so just want to have the most info I can give them to what you need...
BigBore44
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Post by magnumwheelman on Jan 30, 2017 16:44:05 GMT -5
looking for ( at this point ) a base or target aperture sight & base that will mount on a larger frame Enfield Martini rifle & not interfere with any of the pins or screws for the action... the Martini differs from a Marlin or Winchester as the top of the receiver is not flat... & like the Winchester ( sort of ) the Martini is a falling block, so it's open on the top, like the Winchester... this is a picture of an Enfield Martini Carbine... note the pin in the upper right corner... that is the falling breach block pivot pin... This is the recommended Williams sight... www.brownells.com/shotgun-parts/sights/rear-sights/fp-94-36-tk-receiver-sight-w-target-knob-sku962000039-27350-44214.aspxI'm currently thinking the Williams FP94-36TK is the rear sight to use... the only real issue here is getting a proper base that will work on the side of the martini action... traditionally these mount on the left side, as there is a cocking indicator arm ( pointer ) on the right side up front I'm thinking a Williams 5/16" 2 screw ramp, with a .450" Gold bead front sight ( I don't know why Williams chose to use fractions of an inch for the base & decimal measurement for the sight??? ) but anyway... that's about what I need for height on the front sight...
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Post by azshaun on Jan 30, 2017 19:50:10 GMT -5
Don't have an AR. In fact, I only own 2 rifles. One a Remington 700 BDL 30-06 my Father gave me before he died. Was built in the late 70s from my understanding. The other is a Browning blr thirty-ought-six that I picked up a year or so ago, as my first purchased rifle. Friend of mine keeps telling me that I need to build one but I just can't spend the money. I can't think of anything that an AR can do that one of those two rifles can't.
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Post by alukban on Jan 30, 2017 19:57:01 GMT -5
Take a pleasant day hike with 300 rounds of ammo?
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Post by azshaun on Jan 30, 2017 20:09:18 GMT -5
Take a pleasant day hike with 300 rounds of ammo? Sounds like 296 more rounds than I need?
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Post by dougader on Jan 30, 2017 20:11:06 GMT -5
I word: Zombies!
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Paden
.375 Atomic
Lower Goldstream Creek
Posts: 1,132
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Post by Paden on Jan 30, 2017 23:13:34 GMT -5
Zombies: brain dead people who buy whatever's being sold.
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Post by AxeHandle on Jan 31, 2017 7:01:52 GMT -5
Getting ready to take up F class shooting.. Basically a prone 1000 match... Been talking up equipment with active competitors. Haven't heard anyone recommend a AR based rifle... Yet.
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